HeeeeeyNow | 6 points
Is supply chain the reason the majority of medical community is ignoring Ivermectin?Is there enough available Ivermectin on hand to treat the volume of sick? Or could it be quickly manufactured?
Similar to the way Fauci recommended not to use masks early on?
Nah. There just haven't been large randomized trials from researchers with enough status to get ivermectin into one of the major peer-reviewed clinical journals. Studies to date have all been either small, not adequately randomized, or from developing world researchers that don't have an "in" with the journals, so their studies languish in non-published limbo.
Perhaps the Gates Foundation funded study may be the first with that sort of clout, but that's at least 6 months away... I think the optimism hereabouts is bit too much at times. The better non-peer reviewed studies show it may help, but its not a cure-all.
The second issue of course is hydroxychloroquine. There was way too much optimism there from people who didn't understand the hierarchy of evidence. And when the large, randomized trials of HCQ showed no benefit, they couldn't understand why their pet drug was rejected by evidence-based medicine. The HCQ fiasco hangs over the reception of ivermectin.
Totally Agree, but you would think many smaller randomized trials would help the cause. But apparently not. Any trial now using placebos would in my eye be sentencing someone to death. We need to back the FLCCC the best we can and just try to get the word out there. Fauci is an ass and should be charged with crimes against humanity.
Ivermectin is the way!
[-] TheInterceptor007 | 5 points
Fauci is a disgrace liar don’t use masks las Year when we had data that shows the masks works off course with the Ivermectin is the same is going to take them long time to accept the true. I am not against of vaccines but Ivermectin is safer to take than the vaccine and also the vaccine may not work well if at all on the new variants of the virus so vaccine is part of the solution not the only solution!
[-] AdvantageAncient2193 | 2 points
Fauci and gates make money from moderna vaccines. That is why they are constantly blasting us in the media. $$$$$$$
That's the problem with the FLCCC: if its members were willing to test their hypothesis, I believe that with two medical centers at their disposal, they could have produced the evidence themselves. And perhaps lives would be lost.
Science is, and has to be, coldly critical. It can't assume the outcome before hypotheses are tested. Its very possible some might die unnecessarily, but with good evidence of efficacy, far fewer might die later. It's not the same ethos as medicine, even if the most successful medicine is all based on science.
MDs aren't MD-PhD's. Few actually publish research. The Hippocratic oath comes into conflict with conducting well-constructed studies. But pleas based on unpublished research and circumstantial evidence won't be persuasive to the larger world.
[-] Easy_Yellow_307 | 2 points
The scientific evidence is already there. There are many ways to get even better confirmatory data without killing people through non-treatment.
It's not non-treatment.
It's treatment at standard of care (these days, oxygen support, avoiding intubation as long as possible, steroid and anticoagulant therapy) as a control group, and treatment at standard of care + ivermectin as the experimental group.
Just like the trials that confirmed that dexamethasone offered a significant survival benefit. Some people who could have survived died because they were randomized to control. Many later survived thanks to the studies.
[-] Easy_Yellow_307 | 2 points
Standard of care is do nothing until you end up in hospital. If you treat with ivermectin by onset of first symptoms (the earlier the better) your chances of survival become between 70% and 90% better than "standard of care". That is already shown to a good degree of certainty by meta analysis of multiple RCTs.
If you take the average CFR of 2% for SOC and conservative mortality RR for Ivermectin as .75 (which would already be a highly effective treatment, reducing the amount of death by 25%) and design a properly powered study to confirm this hypothesis with the standard alpha of 0.05 and beta of 0.2, you will need about 10k participants in each arm.
This will result in approximately the following deaths:
Control: 200 deaths
IVM (late treatment, current best estimate RR=0.5): 100 deaths
IVM (early treatment, current best estimate RR=0.2): 40 deaths
So basically if you do a "large RCT" now of IVM early treatment vs SOC you effectively condemn 160 of placebo to death.
If you do a late treatment IVM vs SOC, you effectively condemn 200+100-40 = 260 people to death.
The ethical thing to do at this stage is to change early stage SOC (ie. DO NOTHNG) to be the FLCCC I-MASK+ protocol. Then do large early stage treatment studies comparing SOC (which is now the I-MASK+ protocol including IVM) to different dosing levels of IVM, combining IVM with HCQ+zinc, Fluvoxamine, IVM (SOC) + Fluvoxamine.
Note that if SOC becomes the FLCCC I-MASK+ protocol or something similar, these studies would have to be even bigger - since with the current full I-MASK treatment started early your CFR would probably be much lower than just IVM at different doses as was the case in the studies quoted above. I've read multiple reports of thousands of people treated with early treatment regiments with 1 or 2 deaths. So the CFR for early I-MASK+ treatment would probably be around 0.1% - that would require studies of around 50k people per arm to detect even large benefits (50%) to the standard degree of certainty (alpha=0.05).
But yeah, since nobody is doing the ethical thing, I guess the only option left is to do a large RCT ASAP, because for the past 3 months the world's medical academia has been condemning thousands of people to death every day due to treatment nihilism.
The figures of the amounts of preventable death is much much larger than the 70% or 75% or whatever percentage you take the RR of using early IVM treatment to be. Because one of the other benefits of IVM is the much much faster resolution of symptoms and viral load reduction. This would lead to much lower R0, which would in turn result in lower spread, which would result in less cases - which has an exponential impact over time.
If 4 months ago, when the data was already extremely compelling, early treatment with Vit.D, Melatonin, Zinc and IVM or something similar (pick your favorite, Fluvoxamine, HCQ+Zinc, Quercetin, hell - even propolis and tumeric has been shown to be effective - just don't use Remdesivir, it has nasty side-effects making it useless as early treatment or prophylaxis and pretty much useless for later phase also) was widely promoted and campaigns were run to get people treatment ASAP and also doing prophylaxis of household contacts was rolled out, the pandemic would have been over in January. Vaccinations could be rolled out to ensure it remains under control and thousands and thousands of lives would have been saved.
My guess is that if such a campaign was rolled out in the US during early November, the total number of deaths would never have crossed 300k. Now it's at 530k and climbing....
Anyway, just ranting a bit, I never would have believed the extent of influence corporations have over policy and how profit margins have driven research and treatment decisions especially in the US and Europe, unless I saw it with my own eyes. It is now clear as daylight how corrupt the world has become. Allowing thousands and thousands to die just for a few extra $$$.
At least, I really hope that's the reason... because I can think of another compelling reason why governments around the world might not want to treat COVID very effectively... and that is the fact that healthy people rarely die of COVID. And sick people place a heavy financial burden on governments. The classic problem where longer life expectancy results in a population with a large percentage of older people. People relying on government healthcare, pension funds etc. I really really hope the reason early treatment SOC = do nothing and late treatment SOC = Remdesivir is purely just corporate greed.
[-] Easy_Yellow_307 | 1 points
At the time Dexamethasone didn't have the level of evidence IVM has now. Also, many would argue that Dexamethasone should have been approved much much earlier (one of them would be Pierre Kory, who's first senate testimony was to promote Dexamethasone).
[-] AdvantageAncient2193 | 1 points
Flccc is saving lives and going all over the world saving lives. What is the matter with you???
[-] Doc-Crentist | 2 points
https://twitter.com/togethertrial/status/1365412508647890946?s=21
[-] Doc-Crentist | 1 points
TogetherTrial Twitter account makes it sound like they are 4-6 weeks away from having results- fwiw. Also have you seen the results from Eli Schwartz out of Israel?
[-] AdvantageAncient2193 | 1 points
There has been a mountain of evidence on the safety and use of ivermectin for prevention,,,early treatment ,,and late stage. It has been used to get patients off from the ventilator.
[-] traveler19395 | 1 points
The readily available vials of 1% IVM for veterinary use cost, what, $20? and must contain hundreds of 12mg doses. I don't know this, but I assume that it could be designated for human use if it was just diverted to a different line in the same factory.
[-] Easy_Yellow_307 | 3 points | Mar 03 2021 12:46:36
No, profit margins is the only reason.
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