Doc-Crentist | 6 points
Negative Results from small trial in MexicoIn no way does even FLCCC posit that ivermectin by itself is a cure. They posit a protocol which includes other medication and/supplements, dependimg on severity. Because ivermectin is being denied, people speak of it as a "cure". It is rather successful as part of a treatment protocol. And it is recommended to be begun early in treatment.
[-] stereomatch | 2 points
Before anyone again starts calling a study "negative", please read this explanation of how studies are "powered" (statistically).
The media often fails to understand the distinction, and many doctors can fail to do so too, esp if they don't read the paper:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ivermectin/comments/lb5nv7/_/gn3hdh7
Also small study with mild cases, all of whom might have recovered with no tx anyway. Such is a reality with Covid. It is just no one knows if his immune system will be successful by itself or not. If I got covid, I'd still immediately get on Ivermectin. I already take the prophylactic supplements recommended by FLCCC.
[-] thecomfortstation | 2 points
Only one dose of Ivermectin. Double that dosage was clearly shown by Andrew Hill to give lower mortality and quicker viral clearance. Most practices would give a minimum of 2 doses of Ivermectin and if that didn't show improvement continue for 5 days.
Still shows lower mortality nonetheless.
[-] Murky-Lengthiness | 2 points
This should not even be published, they are incompetent
[-] Doc-Crentist | 1 points
https://ylv2w2zt2f5na22pjx4rv4n7zy-adwhj77lcyoafdy-www-lja-mx.translate.goog/2021/02/issea-confia-en-tratamiento-para-covid-19-que-no-esta-comprobado/
[-] akaariai | 4 points | Feb 23 2021 20:42:21
Not strictly negative - they did not find statistically significant results, but still mortality was lower in ivm group.
Also, initial d-dimer was a lot higher in ivm group compared to the placebo group, and high d-dimer is a predictor for mortality. In other words the ivm treated patients had worse initial condition based on d-dimer levels.
Finally small trial, low dose of ivm and severe patients, so great efficacy wasn't likely. Even if ivm is sometimes labelled as "the cure" it's definitely not.
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[-] Doc-Crentist | 1 points | Feb 23 2021 21:29:13
P values are pretty bad too no? I’m just a layman. Seems skeptics are seizing on this but are ignoring the better p values from the numerous other trials.
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[-] akaariai | 1 points | Feb 24 2021 07:34:23
Bad P value doesn't mean much.
For an extreme example imagine a study of testing safety parachutes. The test is throwing out 1000 sky divers from airplane without a safety parachute, another 1000 with a working one.
The likely result of this study is that 1 jumper without safety parachute dies and zero deaths in the other group. The p value would be close to 1, but this doesn't mean safety parachutes are useless!
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[-] Maleficent_Rooster_1 | 1 points | Feb 24 2021 09:03:00
The planes were already flying right over the canopy for this study, so not much chance for the parachute (ivm) to do its work! I've heard it also has immunomodulating effects (to help with later-stage covid) but with only a single dose and no adoption of the MATH+ protocols, it's unlikely to show efficacy.
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[-] Edges8 | 1 points | Feb 23 2021 23:04:44
I dont think high d dimer is a predictor of mortality.
also, just because "mortality was lower", with such a high p value, this is likely due to statistical sampling, which is why its correct to say there's no difference
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[-] stereomatch | 1 points | Feb 24 2021 07:30:19
I dont think high d dimer is a predictor of mortality.
Why would you say that ?
https://jintensivecare.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40560-020-00466-z 10 July 2020 D-dimer as a biomarker for disease severity and mortality in COVID-19 patients: a case control study
Conclusions D-dimer is commonly elevated in patients with COVID-19. D-dimer levels correlate with disease severity and are a reliable prognostic marker for in-hospital mortality in patients admitted for COVID-19.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32997543/ D-dimer level in COVID-19 infection: a systematic review
Mehrdad Rostami et al. Expert Rev Hematol. 2020 Nov.
Expert opinion: D-dimer level is one of the measures used in patients to detect thrombosis. Studies have reported an increase in D-dimer and fibrinogen concentrations in the early stages of COVID-19 disease a 3 to 4-fold rise in D-dimer levels is linked to poor prognosis. In addition, underlying diseases such as diabetes, cancer, stroke, and pregnancy may trigger an increase in D-dimer levels in COVID-19 patients. Measuring the level of D-dimer and coagulation parameters from the early stage of the disease can also be useful in controlling and managing of COVID-19 disease.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7384402/ D-dimer level is associated with the severity of COVID-19
Hai-Han Yu, Chuan Qin, [...], and Dai-Shi Tian
Conclusion Patients with severe COVID-19 have a higher level of D-dimer than those with non-severe disease, and D-dimer greater than 0.5 μg/ml is associated with severe infection in patients with COVID-19.
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[-] Edges8 | 2 points | Feb 24 2021 11:06:52
I stand corrected
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[-] akaariai | 1 points | Feb 24 2021 07:38:47
The answer to d-dimer levels is ridiculously easy to find. First link from "high d dimer is a predictor of mortality" Google search is D-dimer level is a useful predictor for mortality in patients with COVID-19: Analysis of 483 cases.
And about the high p-value, it really really doesn't work the way that if p value is high it means there can't be any efficacy. See the safety parachute example in the other comment I just wrote.
It is true it's correct to say they found no difference in this study. But it is not correct to say there can't be difference!
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[-] Edges8 | 1 points | Feb 24 2021 11:54:45
it is most correct to say you cannot conclude that there is a difference from this study, I agree.
in practice, a d dimer is a largely useless test (though has a good npv in low risk vte patients), but it makes sense that in aggregate its a surrogate for severity
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