Here we have medcram (Dr Seheult) and Dr John Campbell prominent educators on YouTube (Dr Campbell is a frequent guest on DW German News) - together in a joint interview.

They have a long discussion on Ivermectin as well (see section below):

28:00 Thoughts on Ivermectin?

Rough transcript of the interesting parts of the video (my comments are in brackets):

15:30 - convalescent plasma - FDA approved when it had no control group

23:00 - vitamin d

Dr Seheult

2 part disease

Early course

And late part

Where steroids work - dexamethasone etc

24:00 - very early there is a suppression of the immune system

suppression of interteron response

Early part engage immunity or help out the immune system

Whereas later in the course when immunity kicks in and there is a cytokine storm and a need to suppress the pneumonia - I think dexamethasone is one of the best things

(Note: may be misleading if it's innate only or adaptive only - what may be is that it virus is suppressing immune response, then elimination of the virus by or before day 8 for nearly all may be removing the brakes on an already building inflammatory response - ie as virus dies it removes the brakes the virus had put in - thereby masking the extent of the potential inflammatory response - the true potential of which may start to rear it's head once virus starts dying - but if so then those who remove virus early or have milder cases because were taking Ivermectin - those should have inflammatory stage early than day 7-8 - but instead they too have it at day 7-8 ir milder but for them also happens then - so why is that - or is that it viral peak is muted then takes time and so winds up having oximeter fall still around day 7-8)

24:40 - Remdesivir - US data supports a bit But UK data where not - WHO RECOVERY trial - but then this used it a bit later

(Note: UK hospitals were turning away early stage patients and only admitting serious cases which may explain the difference ?)

25:19 - monoclonal antibodies

26:30 - Dr John Campbell

Vitamin d - Spain study - calcifidiol

Vitamin d takes days to a week to convert

So vitamin d should be taking when health

When someone becomes ill and if we find them vitamin d it won't convert to calcifidiol for some days to a week so will not happen fast enough to benefit immediately during disease

28:00 Thoughts on Ivermectin?

A lot of people have asked about ivermectin and if could be a potential benefit

Should organizations and governments look into it

Dr Seheult:

We covered ivermectin early on

At that time the theory was Ivermectin somehow inhibited proteins going into the nucleus (that was otherwise causing the immune system to be shut down)

I think the current thinking and what woke us up was the US Senate hearing with Dr Pierre Kory

(Note: maybe understating it - since he may have been watching ivermectin studies coming in last 3-4 months - like we all have)

That group which is looking into Ivermectin ie Dr Paul Marik's group (MATH+ protocol)

(Note: They also were responding to the compelling study results which have been coming in the last 3-4 months)

They believe that ivermectin maybe acting as an ACE2 blocker - almost behaving like a monoclonal antibody

Which maybe beneficial in prevention and in treating early covid19

(Note: Whiteboard Doctor has a good video on the 4 theorized ways ivermectin maybe working and he had mentioned those again in the recent Belize approval video)

Would like to see a large multicentric trial that is peer reviewed

And is conducted in the country where you actually want to have the drug administered because populations can vary

There are randomized controlled trials some with 200-300 participants

But hasn't been peer reviewed

These populations have a higher incidence of parasitic infections (ie immune response and exposure may be different) so are not fully representative of the US population

The mortality in the US is very high

And in these studies the mortality in both arms is very low (due to different parasitic exposure and possibly pathogen exposure leading to a more robust immune response in early covid19 or could be tea drinking etc ?)

If we look at the group that is raising awareness

Boy if Ivermectin works it will be amazing

I am hoping that it will work

If you look that group what they asking for which I think is perfectly reasonable is for the NIH to look at the data and to figure out what needs to be done to move forward so this could potentially be available in the US

Good news is there is a US trial underway by Temple University in Philadelphia

(Note: but is that the one with reduced number of participants?)

Look the people who are proposing this are not quacks - they are well respected academics that have been working in critical care for a long time and have published a number of papers

32:00 - So we have to keep an open mind take it seriously but again remember that it may have potential side effects

(Note: which side effects of he referring to?)

32:05 - Dr John Campbell

Yeah the idea that you have a drug (Ivermectin) that is inexpensive which has a known safety profile is generic people can make it in very large amounts without any copyright issues on the drug

It is a great idea

And that is what happened with steroids these drugs are readily and freely available

We now know how to use them

32:30 - it just seems pity to me that drugs like Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine have gotten tangled up in politics to an extent

And I mean politics with a small p - not really party politics

(Note: Though Hydroxychloroquine was used as a party politics vehicle because Trump happened to push it and the other side thought this was a slam dunk opportunity to prove him wrong)

So this is one of the things we not really free to talk about because there is a lot of emotion around it

And there is a huge amount of disinformation about it

(Note: He means also copyrighted drugs being offended by the idea of a generic drug but he is sidestepping that delicately)

39:50 - As Roger Seheult said the people proposing this are very high quality people

So I spent an evening looking at it and I read their information

And it makes a lot of sense

But when you actually look back to the original trial data I was frustrated

So the Bangladesh paper it showed efficacy but the age profile etc they've got a different parasitic profile they have got malaria

So many other things which could be confusing the picture

(Note: However all this things should tend to make harder to get high enough mortality numbers - and not necessarily on efficacy of ivermectin - unless it is something obscure)

(Note: And if nothing else that trail data is at least useful for the rest of the world as they have a matching demographic)

(Note: Plus these results have a signal that is all in one direction - from Egypt and Peru and so there is some compelling info there)

33:28 - so I am not sure we can take too much from that

So I could not find any clinical trial that I felt I could report on reliably

(Note: Has he seen the Egypt Zagazig Univ post-exposure prophylaxis trial? 8x reduction in symptomatic cases)

So it is an interesting possibility if it works I would be delighted the same as Roger Seheult

It is cheap widely available all over the world it is on the WHO list of essential drugs

34:20 - people obtaining Ivermectin and even horse paste

I imagine neither of you think that's a good idea

Dr John Campbell - take nothing your own doctor doesn't prescribe

(Note: Yet we have doctors who don't know - they were not giving steroids just because WHO said so - or are giving steroids too early (some cases of that in other countries - as Dr Been also reports)

Dr Seheult - (is uncomfortable - doesn't want to be seen supporting when stage had been set to saying let doctors decide) - exactly

(Note: Dr Seheult has already suggested in his earlier videos that some people - staff? - at his hospital is already using Ivermectin on a weekly basis for prophylaxis)

(Note: Also is your local doctor going to be capable of dissecting the data on Ivermectin as minutely as the group dedicated to ICU care, experts on sepsis treatment, and who have studied drug options for months have been doing - most local doctors don't have time and their decision in this matter rests entirely on the specific doctor's inclination towards keeping up with daily research - so saying ignore the MATH+ people who have been right on steroids when the WHO and big segment of traditional media coverage was wrong - and to trust your local doctor being right is a bit disingenuous and not really a fair advice to the public - since your doctor being right on this is a flip of the coin)

(Note: Dr Seheult was a bit uncomfortable being forced to give a yes no answer to this - he is a more subtle analyzer - while Dr John Campbell is more folksy and perhaps less academic - he was willing to say he found no compelling evidence in the studies he read - which Dr Seheult could have agreed with, but he didn't - Dr Seheult has a chemistry major in his undergrad training and is more comfortable explaining the many pathways that Ivermectin or NAC or glutathione could impact the inflammatory pathways - which may not be the forte for others)

(continued below)

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The problem with their cautious approach is that the pandemic will be over by the time we get an RCT peer reviewed on IVM. They say don't take horse paste.. most doctors won't prescribe it. Although I have followed them both, and respect them, I feel Marik and Kory truly believe in IVM and will be able to see results in clinical practice if it saves a reasonable percentage of lives.

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Outstanding post, stereomatch!!

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