X-post: Dr Been very enlightening discussion and viewer Q&A specifically on fixing long hauler syndrome with Dr Bruce Patterson who is working on developing a treatment program for long haulers - with a website expected in a week etc. - also has a few mentions if Ivermectin (2020-12-25)

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 25 2020 20:07:01

Would you please summarize Dr. Been's comments about ivermectin, or at least specify the times of those remarks? This sub is about ivermectin, not long hauler syndrome. Please make it easy to get the ivermectin-relevant parts. Your creating a summary of the ivermectin-related comments is a lot more efficient than the sub's 855 readers watching the video. Does that make sense to you?

IMO this applies to every video posted to the sub. Please make it easy for other /r/ivermectin readers to get the ivermectin information efficiently.

[-] stereomatch | 2 points | Dec 25 2020 20:13:12

The ivermectin mention was fleeting - on two or 3 occasions - where Dr Bruce Patterson mentioned it as helping some long haulers.

I would have entered the time stamp like I usually do, but the video was somehow showing the time remaining.

I will try to see if I can locate the places again.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 25 2020 20:14:37

The ivermectin mention was fleeting

Is the video really appropriate for /r/ivermectin, if that's the case?

[-] stereomatch | 2 points | Dec 25 2020 21:25:55

If you want validation of Ivermectin those mentions do provide some since Dr Bruce Patterson is acknowledging that Ivermectin along with steroids are tools to tackle long haulers syndrome.

It just happens to be accompanied by 1 hour more of long hauler stuff but that doesn't dilute it's value.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 25 2020 22:27:06

In that case, I would appreciate the times of the ivermectin mentions and/or a summary of them. I'm not a long-hauler and have no interest in watching an hour-long video to catch a few ivermectin-related sentences that might be new information.

Thanks for annotating the video! Someday. No pressure.

[-] stereomatch | 3 points | Dec 26 2020 00:28:51

I have added more time stamps esp around the ivermectin mentions.

Dr Bruce Patterson mentions it as a general antiviral.

His thesis in general is that post COVID there may be a need to counter secondary viral infections from rearing their head - and ivermectin may have a value there.

Dr Been points to his experience with those who got steroids early because their doctors prescribed them early - which can be bad - but a peculiarity he found is that while this group did worse because their steroids started to early - he did notice that zero from this group went on to develop long hauler symptoms.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 26 2020 20:49:36

His thesis in general is that post COVID there may be a need to counter secondary viral infections from rearing their head - and ivermectin may have a value there.

Very cool, TIL for me!

Dr Been ... did notice that zero from this group went on to develop long hauler symptoms.

That's a fascinating result. I don't know enough to infer what the mechanism might be. Does Dr. Been suggest anything?

[-] stereomatch | 2 points | Dec 27 2020 00:47:04

No he is just observing from what he saw with the group he was treating who were referred to him because they did bad getting steroids too early or closer to day 1 of symptoms because of some doctors.

He says of this group he feels fewer went on to long hauler.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 25 2020 20:19:28

Based on the subtitles posted on /r/COVID19positive, I wouldn't bother. Just my opinion, feel free to ignore me.

[-] Haitchpeasauce | 2 points | Dec 25 2020 23:09:05

Dr Yo and Dr Patterson have started testing ivermectin and steroids to treat long haulers. Dr Yo sounds really excited about the findings. Results out in a few weeks.

One long hauler tweeted her cytokine panel before and after ivermectin and the change just after 10 hours was remarkable.

I say this because this video is an early hint that Dr Patterson is interested in Ivermectin. This is the guy who researched into Leronlimab and understands the immune system deeply. This space is about to start moving quickly. Good news for long haulers, and Ivermectin is looking to be able to help many of them.

[-] stereomatch | 1 points | Dec 26 2020 00:34:01

Thanks.

Suggests may be useful to repeat ivermectin even after day 1-8 period - both for it's potential immunomodulatory effect or of it's metabolites - or for the antiviral effect post COVID to keep other secondary opportunistic viral recurrence (recurrence or triggering of latent virus infections specific to patient history that Dr Bruce Patterson refers to).

[-] Haitchpeasauce | 1 points | Dec 26 2020 01:14:31

I do wonder whether the metabolites have an active role too.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 26 2020 21:30:47

Metabolites? I'm going to guess that you actually read the Pharmacokinetics of Ivermectin in Animals and Humans paper.

It says that the half-life of ivermectin is about 12 hours, but for metabolites it's 3 days?!?

[-] Haitchpeasauce | 2 points | Dec 27 2020 01:12:22

I think the authors are simply stating that the metabolites persist for longer, it's not stated what effect they have, if any.

I read that paper, mainly the humans section. Main takeaways we know already, dose dependent concentrations, the half life. It backs up Dr Carvallo's preference for drops over pills, the study shows the drops have better absorption.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 27 2020 16:14:42

simply stating that the metabolites persist for longer

I was briefly thrilled by the idea that the metabolites are somehow active, but I tried briefly and didn't find out anything about them.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 26 2020 21:23:43

There is plenty of evidence that ivermectin is useful after the viral phase:

Dr. Aguirre's experience treating patients (the more severe the disease, the more ivermectin they get)
The ICON study (ivermectin reduced fatalities 52% among patients requiring heavy 02 supplementation including ventilators)
Dr. Scheim's hypothesis that it prevents blood clumping, preserving lung function and preventing blood clots, evidenced by ivermectin's impact on malaria patients
Ivermectin's anti-inflammatory effects

More players to be named later.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 26 2020 21:11:32

Yikes: I might have to retweet this.

And review the evidence for ivermectin as an anti-inflammatory.

Thanks, Aitch!

[-] Haitchpeasauce | 2 points | Dec 26 2020 22:03:35

I think this is better referred to as an immunomodulator. Combined with steroids it could be powerfully beneficial to many long haulers who fit the profile. These results are relevant to active covid as well.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 27 2020 16:27:31

immunomodulator

Immunomodulators are medications used to help regulate or normalize the immune system. Examples include one class of immunomodulator which is used as an add-on therapy to treat asthma and another which treats hereditary angioedema.

So - long haulers have messed up immune systems?

[-] Haitchpeasauce | 3 points | Dec 27 2020 20:09:30

Yes, or residual inflammation, and some may possibly have lingering virus but this is a theory. As far as I know it's not one single thing and pretty heterogeneous.

[-] giddyrobin | 1 points | Dec 28 2020 17:17:11

I am in a group with Long Haulers. They are suffering and doctors do not have answers to them (in fact, Doctors brush off their symptoms of fatigue, breathing, circulation issues, neuro like Parkinson's symptoms, headaches for months. Dr. Been and Dr. Marik and now Dr. Patterson thank God are bringing some answers. On the surface they appear to have MAST related issues. H1 + H2 seems to help. But the idea that a Ivermectin could completely knock out the long hauler people is so exciting. Oddly many Long Haulers were in excellent health prior to Covid, marathon runners, active moms, etc. This isn't an, "oh well you were fat and you deserve to suffer". These were active people now suffering and only some doctors are scratching the surface.

[-] Haitchpeasauce | 1 points | Dec 28 2020 23:24:10

I hear about this attitude over and over, it's disappointing. Doctors don't know so they don't act. Lots of very healthy people losing their quality of life and their jobs because of this.

I don't think ivermectin is the only answer, this is a complex disease and everybody is different. Dr Patterson is on a path to having a clearer picture and from there giving the right treatments.

Hope you make a full recovery soon.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 25 2020 20:08:10

Is this also posted to /r/covidlonghaulers and /r/covidlonghaulinfo?

[-] stereomatch | 2 points | Dec 25 2020 20:13:41

Not yet - you can x-post the r/covid19positive link if you want.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 25 2020 20:17:28

The only part relevant to this sub isn't much IMO:

23:05 - we have had individuals who have responded to ivermectin

[-] stereomatch | 2 points | Dec 26 2020 00:30:09

Check again I have added time stamps for the 3 or so mentions of ivermectin.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 2 points | Dec 27 2020 16:33:42

That was a really outstanding post, Stereo. I didn't give it appropriate attention when I looked at it the first time. I posted it to /r/covidPFX (prophylaxis). The sub has only a few readers but maybe a few more eyeballs will see the post.

[-] stereomatch | 2 points | Dec 27 2020 18:11:32

What's the exact name for this subreddit you mention?

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 2 points | Dec 27 2020 18:36:21

LOL I remembered the name wrong! I have an infallible memory in that it never fails to fail me. 🤪🙄🤣

I corrected the spelling.

[-] stereomatch | 2 points | Dec 28 2020 08:48:06

Thanks.

[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 1 points | Dec 26 2020 20:46:45

Thanks for doing that! I heap karma on you (the real stuff, not reddit karma -- do you feel a surge of calmness and sense of well-being?).

[-] stereomatch | 1 points | Dec 27 2020 17:31:25

Ok I have x-posted there too.