Main_Performer4701 | 28 points
Convinced 0 people about ivermectin - feeling hopelessHow many of you have failed repeatedly to tell others about ivermectin? I have sent as many studies and anecdotes as I could and still they cite that one study about the in vitro that apparently debunks the whole drug. They cite me that FDA article that never says not to take ivermectin with covid. Just says not enough data to be conclusive. Apparently that’s a deal breaker to them as well.
Was it my pitch? I never tried to convince them to use it or sell the idea. Only wanted to tell them this exists and to do independent research on the topic. I am being called a conspiracy theorist when I mention why the west tries so hard to debunk ivermectin. I don’t believe in the Qanon NWO microchip bullshit - but it’s doesn’t take a genius to realize our health institutions protect the interests of their economic stakeholders. “Cough Big pharma cough”.
Anyways I don’t give a fuck about them anymore. I don’t gain anything from them trying ivermectin. Their loss I guess. My biggest concern is my family who thinks I’m a nutcase for taking my vitamins and my zinc. I will not be a covid survivor because I’ll do everything I can to not get it at all. I didn’t take this shit seriously as a healthy 21y old until I went on r/covid19positive and was enlightened on the horrors of long covid on young healthy people. Good news is ivermectin works for long covid too!
Any success stores with family here?
Couple of surefire ways to not get your message through: - Big pharma consipracy - Total miracle cure - Mixing politics to the message
Even if you believe some of the above to be true those are the worst arguments to use.
I'm convinced the best way forward is to show the in vivo efficacy study in the golden hamster, the ICON study, then all the places using ivermectin with good results and finally all the RCT results. Any of those alone is not strong evidence for ivm but the combination of all those is unlikely a coincidence.
Finally I believe the in vitro anti-viral activity is one of the worst pieces to show. The needed dose is way too high and antivirals just do not work for hospitalized patients. See for example the monoclonal antibodies and remdesivir. So, if you go for the antiviral in vitro study you are first pointing out ivm is not that efficient antiviral, then saying it works as antiviral in hospitalized patients with great results. But even stronger antivirals do not work in that setting.
You can also point out bairictinib works in critical patients and is a drug for rheumatoid arthritis. It's working based on immunomodulating effect. So, immunomodulating effect works, repurposed drug for something completely different works in critical patients. Why not ivm too?
I struggled initially to get my older parents on board but after a while they saw I was fine and with the FLCC press conference they final decided there was everything to gain and nothing to lose. But I have a background that is relevant enough to at least take my opinion seriously, which helped. As much as I want to share with coworkers, I'm not ready to potentially be labeled at this point.
I've had a fair amount of success convincing friends and family. I think one thing that helps is that I'm not typically an alternative medicine type of person, and also that my friends know I really research things and would never suggest something I thought could be iffy safety-wise. I'm pretty lighthearted in talking about it, so I assume that helps; I don't seem obsessed or dramatic or overly emotionally attached to a drug.
I've basically just said there's a drug that's normally used as an anti-parasitic, and they realized a few months ago that people in Australia who had covid and happened to be taking the drug for other things had pretty good outcomes. And now some studies have been done in a few countries that show it helps keep you from getting covid in the first place, and that if you do get it it seems to help shorten it. I then say that it's being used in several countries for covid, but there haven't been USA studies for it with covid so the FDA hasn't approved it for covid, though it is FDA-approved for other things of course. Some US doctors are using it off-label anyhow and seem to think it really helps.
Yada yada. The big thing is to not get too invested or you look crazy. If people don't want to take it, c'est la vie.
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 4 points
I blame HCQ because it was not the cat's pajamas and because it got politicized. Senate hearing was ruined by the inclusion of HCQ queen Jane Orient.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 6 points
You know what’s scary? I know all about the HCQ fiasco and it’s initially smearing. Recently a study was published saying ivermectin promotes cell death and is dangerous for human use. It meant cancer cells in specific but many think it’s a smear campaign as ivermectin is literally a WHO approved drug. The FDA is also smearing NAC - an OTC supplement for colds. They want us to die. They want to force the vaccine on us. The conspiracy theorists were right fuck.
[-] cyberpimp2 | 1 points
That’s not how that works...
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 2 points
I was being overdramatic for effect here. I don’t believe the run of the mill plandemic stuff but I do believe health authorities are influenced by big pharma and their investments.
[-] my-tech-reddit-acct | 2 points
No, that IS how it works. They at least want enough of us to die that the rest are very scared. The Left does NOT want a quick, cheap solution to this - it's given them too much control. Big Pharma doesn't want a quick cheap non-patented solution for this, there's too much money for vaccines and new patented meds - and their wholly owned subsidiaries, the CDC, FDA and WHO have fallen right in line. You saw how quick that snake Fauci and the rest fell in behind remdesiver, on the basis of the shittiest evidence, right?
[-] cyberpimp2 | 3 points
Yea. You need to see someone about the voices in your head.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 3 points
I agree with you on everything you said but why is it the LEFT? Ivermectin, HCQ, Vitamin D+Zinc are being smeared worldwide even in places with hard right govts. I'm from Canada but the political spectrum here is virtually the same as the US. I always believed the pandemic was never some kind of partisan conspiracy but massive corruption that goes back decades in the West's development. I would even assume that Trump's right wing govt actually made covid worse in the states due to his inflammatory rhetoric, encouraging denial of covid, and poor decisions made throughout the pandemic.
Then again, i dont identify with either left or right politics. I vote for whoever is more beneficial for me at the moment lolz. I believe late stage corporate capitalism and rampant globalization has made both parties opposite sides of the same coin. Does not matter who's in charge the political and economic elite will play us like fiddles, watch us die by the droves, pit us against each other while lining their pockets. "They" are happy to switch sides whenever. An example of this is American foreign policy. Democrats have warmongered just as much if not more in some cases than republicans. We all know war = profits. Pandemic = profits
[-] my-tech-reddit-acct | 2 points
I don't know Canadian politics, but in the US, there is definitely a strong tendency for Lefties to be quicker to support more stingent lockdowns and to vilify any suggestions of early treatments with cheap available drugs. Anybody in the US that can't see that is ignorant, probably willfully.
Look at the statements of the Democrats at the Senate Subcommittee hearings on early treatment, then listen to the republicans, and tell me there's no difference.
There is no way the vaccine will beat IVM around the world. There are too many poor people out there. IVM being adopted in several population dense countries will eventually show whether it is effective as a vaccine or not.
In the US, the left is definitely support more lockdowns as they are in urban areas. They have no choice (well they do, but they have been sold on the vaccine).
I would like to see a criminal investigation into the data fabrication by Surgisphere (here). It feels like the virologists are trying to both cover up the covid-19 origin and also be the heroes via the vaccine. The vaccine is amazing and I'm happy that the mRNA is so effective, but damn, how did we get here.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
No politics in /r/ivermectin please.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
No politics in /r/ivermectin please.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
No politics in /r/ivermectin please.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
No politics in /r/ivermectin please.
[-] ibexrecurve | 4 points
I have tried not to tell anyone about it all because I realize people will not take me seriously.
I think there's also a personality component to this. I can tell you're a proactive person. I'm a proactive person. That's why we both found out about ivermectin and are on this sub (also, can't forget to thank /u/TrumpLyftAlles). Most people are not proactive.
[-] Ok-Film-9049 | 3 points
All these comments ring true and mirror my experience. My message.. If any doctor reviewed the clinical trials and side effect and safety data..Then they would prescribe it to their elderly family members who caught covid. I sent all the links to my sister and a tube of IVM in case my mum catches it. I am hoping she trusts my judgement and I have said if she has objections I want to know now and not in that scenario when we would all be emotional.
Generally people think, well if it was that conclusive, my doctor will know about it and prescribe it for me. I will just trust my doctor.
All you can do is try. If people aren't receptive they won't change. I tried getting my elderly parents on a supplement regimen back in February (at the time I had figured NAC, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Quercetin, and Zinc might help and was taking it) and they wouldn't listen because their doctor hadn't prescribed it. I did as much as I could and my conscience at least is clear on that front - I've also pointed them to FLCCC but they still think their own family doctor knows best. Some people just won't listen, and you can drive yourself crazy worrying about it or just accept that you did your best and move on.
It's important to remember that everyone is a little stressed and afraid, whether they admit it or not, and will tend to cling onto the things that give them comfort. I've found people seem a lot more brittle and less open to new thinking this past year... and given the conditions, an "unproven" drug backed by a bunch of foreign studies in the context of all the politics around HCQ and so on... and THEN thinking they might take medicine for horses, is just a bridge too far for many people. We're not evangelists - we're just trying to help ourselves, help the people we love, and hopefully get more attention in case it can somehow make a difference in the grander scheme of things.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 2 points
I am taking the exact same regime as you. Problem is they don’t care about the facts. I initially told them about long covid and they brushed it off saying it’s not likely to happen. They are the types to not even take an Advil for a headache and think medicine is bad for you in general. Funny thing is they don’t even take alternative or herbal treatment either. They literally told me to sleep more and exercise and I wouldn’t get covid. I have to live with them in a small house so if one person gets it we all get it.
[-] my-tech-reddit-acct | 3 points
It's pretty obvious that cyberpimp2 is a troll.
[-] giddyrobin | 2 points
Agreed. WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree.
[-] bikes4paul | 2 points
What I've noticed is that my success rate in convincing family, friends and my extended circle greatly increases after someone contracts Covid-19.
My approach has been to send them info prior. Some start my supplement regimen or parts of it immediately. Others ignore it until they contract C19, see their doctor, and are sent home with advice to take Tylenol and eat chicken soup. At that point it's a very stressful wake up call and they reach back out to me. Then I provide my full regimen which is well received and greatly appreciated. It includes a link to outpatient doctors who will treat Covid-19. A smaller number are fans of apple flavoring. ;)
I was able to convince my parents quite easily. However, neither of them were able to convince their physicians to prescribe it. I told my dad about the horse paste. He is thinking of blackmailing his Doctor: "If you don't prescribe me the human stuff, I'm taking the horse paste, and you can't stop me from taking that!"
My in-laws will not consider it at all. Unless and until someone in authority endorses it, they won't touch it, even as they are terrified of becoming positive.
So some success, but it's still very discouraging.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
"If you don't prescribe me the human stuff, I'm taking the horse paste, and you can't stop me from taking that!"
LOL. I tried that with my MD, didn't work.
In /r/gettingIvermectin there are phone numbers of some docs who might prescribe human ivermectin.
[-] Fun-Hall-1351 | 2 points
I sent all the meds and instructions to both my kids. I didn’t do this with my sister and when she contacted covid I had to scramble to get her the meds she would need. She recovered in 4 days but it was a nerve wracking time because she was 3 days into the virus before her first day of IVM.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 1 points
Wow that’s uplifting to hear! 4 days recovery after 3 days of symptoms. Would she have recovered faster if she took it day 1? What kind of ivermectin did you use? I have paste for prevention and will use pills for treatment
[-] Fun-Hall-1351 | 1 points
I sent her the paste. She took doxycycline 100 mg twice a day for 5 days. A 325mg aspirin. 50 mg of zinc. Pepcid ac 20 mg. And yes. She had the medicine but didn’t take it til she developed the cough. She would have healed faster if she took day 1. She had fever, headache and sore throat. She didn’t worry til the dry cough happened. I also sent her an O2 sensor. I was worried she had left it too long but her oxygen remained at good levels.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 1 points
She’s perfectly fine now? Im wondering if it’s a good idea to stay on ivermectin at least week after symptoms go away to prevent long haul.
[-] Fun-Hall-1351 | 2 points
I have taken a dose every week to ten days since mid May.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 1 points
I’m still confused about the protection timeline. The half life in tissue is maximum 72h so if you really want to be safe shouldn’t it be a dose every 4-5 days?
I am taking the paste once a week since I am safe but my family works with the public. I do have to go out at some point for visiting my friend to register a car so in that case I will have to dose up the day before and the day after?
[-] Fun-Hall-1351 | 2 points
I’ve been thinking a lot about your question. Dr Kory with the FLCCC group uses it once a week and has convinced most of his friends and family to do so also. file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/0f/15/CA3150EB-B32B-43EA-BC42-9F885149ED61/FLCCC-Ivermectin-in-the-prophylaxis-and-treatment-of-COVID-19.pdf
He is exposed daily.
If I must be around people and it’s mid week of my dose I use Betadine nasal spray. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082331GXK/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_glt_fabc_pHp2FbX53DGSB
I buy it n bulk off of eBay. It shipped from Malaysia no problem. It has carrageenan in it which has been proven to kill the virus in the nasal cavity. Sorry I don’t have a link.
I also take kalongi powder and honey as per drbeens advice. https://youtu.be/SOwa6-EOohI
This is my protocol. I think ivermectin may be hard to come by soon so I’m not going to use it but once a week or so. Also it may have a tissue half life of 18 hours but it hangs around in your fat for longer.
I wear as much PPE as possible while I’m around people. Face mask and face shield and I take sanitizer wipes into the grocery store and clean my hands and cart constantly.
I think the amount of virus you suck in through your nose and get into your eyes makes a difference to the severity but I am only guessing at that.
I think we need to be extra cautious now as the hospitals are full. If I were to get symptoms I would start the full protocol of ivermectin and supplements.
[-] giddyrobin | 1 points
kalongi powder
You are right. If you get hit with one pellet vs 100 makes a difference in severity.
[-] Fun-Hall-1351 | 1 points
😁
[-] my-tech-reddit-acct | 1 points
The first link in yr comment is a file:/// link, that's on your computer only. Www link is https://covid19criticalcare.com/flccc-ivermectin-in-the-prophylaxis-and-treatment-of-covid-19/
[-] [deleted] | 1 points
[deleted]
[-] Fun-Hall-1351 | 1 points
She is still working in the same office that is crawling with Rona. The office got a memo only last week “suggesting” they wear masks. So yes, so long as she’s in that situation she is basically like working in a hospital with covid patients. She has to mask up and keep the IVM up for guaranteed protection. If I was recovering from covid I would do a dose every 7 days for a couple weeks after recovery. So right now she is still making sure she is clear.
[-] Haitchpeasauce | 2 points
This is a bit of a wild idea, but I'll share something that is unfolding in a conversation with my relatives: talking about vitamin D as a (wait for it) gateway drug.
Let's think about it. I notice that people are resistant enough to talking about supplements of any kind. The furthest most people will go is taking vitamin C for cold and flu, most people aren't convinced that vitamin is D is also of huge importance. For me it wasn't until the pandemic that I came to understand the role of vitamin D in the immune system.
For people to recognise D they need to start thinking about biology a little bit more, at least acknowledge that deficiency in D leads to an immune system that can't function well.
This puts their mindset into a realm of broad disease protection, instead of thinking a vaccine is the only thing we need. And if we do get sick, it's less severe and a better recovery if we are prepared.
From there Ivermectin is still a big leap, let alone the thought of consuming horse paste is right off the deep end. But at least the hearer is becoming receptive to thinking about how the body defends itself and has some emotional investment in doing meaningful things that protect the body.
Given the tone of what I said, it's important to make it clear that vaccines are absolutely essential medicine. Good immune health and therapy works together with vaccination to give us the best health outcomes. Having a functioning immune system is necessary for the vaccine to work, and gives us the best shot at survival should the vaccine fail.
[-] radiantnoir | 1 points
I’ve been sharing posts about Ivermectin for 1 weeks straight that a friend of mine lectured me. I’m just trying to let them know that there’s other options that needs support from people to let the governments know that they vouch for this.
[-] Mentioned_Videos | 1 points
Videos in this thread: Watch Playlist ▶
VIDEO|COMMENT -|- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLWQtT7dHGE|+1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLWQtT7dHGE (1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXh1yflndVE (2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17_U4RPOvqE (3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp-wdupI5p4 (4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec6XslfVSDE|+1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec6XslfVSDE I'm a bot working hard to help Redditors find related videos to watch. I'll keep this updated as long as I can.
The logic of "not enough evidence" is CIRCULAR. There is currently $0 spent on ivermectin studies to see if it can be repurposed. This justification is "not enough evidence". So they are refusing to get more evidence on the grounds of not enough evidence. When in reality, it's not even true that there isn't evidence! There are piles upon piles of evidence going back months.
I find if people are appealing to authority you should shove Dr Kory, Dr Marik, and Dr Varon in their faces because they ARE the authority on this matter. The NIH still recommends NOTHING for prophylaxis for covid. NOTHING, and it's been 9 months of the outbreak. PATHETIC.
[-] giddyrobin | 1 points
Yep. I was touting the EVMS protocol since April. Pushing it hard in one popular FB group for medical workers and no one listened. In late August, the tide was turning. Thank God.
I guess it will just take a while, so sadly more people will die.
I am disgusted by the media's complicity in its suppression. AP reported while Dr. Kory's spoke, "unproven Alternative Treatment" and CBS46 Atlanta put the word HCQ in the caption (which completely freaks people out, which of course it shouldn't)
The vaccine researchers, producers, and investors all have a ton of money to gain and therefore a ton of potential money to lose.
Think a pharma company that spent billions of taxpayer and their own private money to research a vaccine which is going to bring in billions in profits wants to see that upstaged by a drug like Ivermectin which has been around for decades and even won a nobel prize in medicine? They don't.
At the end of the day, in this media environment, you're not just convincing people of Ivermectin's effectiveness, you are also trying to convince them their news lies to them. Because there are a lot of articles out there which state Ivermectin is not effective WITHOUT even doing the one thing Dr Pierre Kory wanted at the senate hearing, which is REVIEW THE DATA.
We know a large portion of the population in south Africa take ivermectin, We know they've also done quite well even compared to 1st world countries with massive health care budgets and lockdown measures... They'll say that it's because Covid doesn't survive as long in the sun or in hot environments. Ok sure, but if that's really the case, why don't we see TEXAS, NEW MEXICO and other dry/hot states doing better than others with colder climates???????????
Every article I've read thus far which says Ivermectin is not helpful to covid, simply do not delve into even the tiniest bit of research which has been published on Ivermectin in the past few months.
[-] cyberpimp2 | 0 points
It’s not your job to convince anyone... what credentials do you have? You should stay in your lane.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 1 points
Did you read my post? I wasn’t trying to sell the idea to anyone and convince them to use it. I asked them to consider it by doing their own research but they all respond very negatively by citing that one article. People are very one sided here. It’s either it’s a hoax or be a a bootlicker for state sponsored “facts”.
The only people I need to convince are my family since I have to live with them. If one of us gets it we all get it. And we all know what happens if you get it.
[-] cyberpimp2 | 1 points
I believe ivermectin needs to be studies more... most studies have had n<50.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 1 points
If you get covid would you take it? You are in this group so I’m sure you have been exposed to enough research and anecdotes to believe it’s the best chance we have compared to what doctors tell you to do when you get it. “Take Tylenol a suck it up”
[-] cyberpimp2 | 1 points
It’s not the best chance we have lol.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 1 points
Then what is? Please enlighten me. Also you didn’t answer whether you would take it if you were infected.
[-] blueheelercd | 3 points
Please do not forget that this is a Nobel Prize winning drug. Millions of doses have been given over decades. It is a safe drug, as stated by the FDA and NIH. I got it by prescription from the md list on the FLCCC website. All the protocols are on there. Prophylaxis - Exposure - Early symptoms - Mild - Severe. It is even helping “long haulers.” All the data is on there and extremely impressive. As well as a great deal of research paper from all of the world. The doctors running this are world class academics and ICU Pulmonary Critical Care Specialists. Running and Working in ICU’s. They are sick of watching people die. This is the most reliable site for information. They update it as new research comes in. They change the protocols. We need treatments now. IVM and the vaccine. A lot of people are going to die before the vaccine gets distributed. The hospitals in LA, Ca are almost full. They are completely full in other states. 1 in 20 people in LA are infected. We need in home medical support early on. The powers that be are only focusing on the Vaccine. The IVM has to come from doctor’s reading what is on FLCCC site and writing it off label. Copy the info and give it to your doctors. Doctors are talking to other doctors. It has to spread that way. The vaccine is too little too late. It will not even get to the general population until July or August. The distribution logistics are daunting. The gov’t is sending the vaccine to the states, but not the billions of dollars they need to inject it. The states are already have huge deficits. The official protocol for prioritizing the distribution has been set, front line health workers first, of course! But TODAY - The Washington Post reported, Re: Members of White House staff to get early access to coronavirus vaccine. “The news comes as boxes of the first shipments of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine departed a facility in Michigan...” Vaccine Purgatory begins. Everything else is “analysis paralysis.” Keep getting the info out. If you have a horse in need I will post dosage charts on r/howtogetivermectin. There is a video on how to measure it on here, Keep spreading the word!
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 3 points
Thank you for this great explanation. I am confident in ivermectin and my biggest concern is getting more of it. Hopefully the truth will save lives
[-] blueheelercd | 1 points
Go to r/howtogetivernectin. Also Amazon. Photos in main post.
[-] my-tech-reddit-acct | 1 points
That link is /r/gettingivermectin
[-] LowEffort7 | 10 points | Dec 13 2020 09:31:26
I feel for you. Sort of in the same boat. I tried to convince my parents to just buy it & keep it with them in case they need it. Now we are not even talking coz they lied saying that their doctor recommended not to take it. I called the doctor & he said no one from my family called him about the drug & it is safe to take. I don’t know how to deal with the lies anymore.
Yes, the drug causes side effects. You told people to do their own research. At the least, they should look into it.
I don’t know what to say to you. People will realize how good the drug is but by then it will be too little too late.
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[-] Main_Performer4701 | 5 points | Dec 13 2020 09:39:09
I think ivermectin proponents have to really lay off the politics when they advocate it. I’ve seen a lot of right wing antivaxxers discover ivermectin and then claim the liberals are hiding the cure for the nanochip vaccine. In one of my community covid groups I said i am open to vaccines only if the rich and politicians take it first. I said that health and politics are intertwined in the west rn and they went off and called me a conspiracy theorist for just asking them to not be a bootlicker. I never once mentioned a specific narrative or agenda but people sure are trustful of their authorities that all bought stocks in vaccine companies.
For the record I hate covidiots and anti maskers. Anyone reading this don’t believe in absolutes fuelled by your confirmation bias like “it’s the bill gayes, it’s the leftist cabal, it’s the 5g etc.
However don’t blindly trust the authorities. When In doubt follow the money.
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[-] sausageface123 | 2 points | Dec 13 2020 09:44:12
Im fully behind this message.
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[-] LowEffort7 | 1 points | Dec 13 2020 10:06:45
https://youtu.be/BLWQtT7dHGE
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points | Dec 14 2020 09:29:24
The deleted post above had too much politics. Let's not do that in /r/ivermectin, please.
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[-] sameffect | 1 points | Dec 14 2020 03:26:20
What are the side effects?
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 3 points | Dec 14 2020 09:27:31
They're benign unless you have heavy infestations of onchocerciasis or loa-loa, in which case ivermectin can be dangerous.
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[-] LowEffort7 | 1 points | Dec 15 2020 01:59:02
https://youtu.be/BLWQtT7dHGE
https://youtu.be/PXh1yflndVE
https://youtu.be/17_U4RPOvqE
https://youtu.be/mp-wdupI5p4
https://youtu.be/ec6XslfVSDE
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