Main_Performer4701 | 18 points
Just took my first prophylaxis dose!Officially part of the prophylaxis gang! Just got told someone at my dads work tested positive. Luckily he wasn’t working the same shift as him but can never be too safe. I just ate a little under half an inch of horse paste with breakfast and am waiting for any side effects on a few hours. If I shit out any worms I’ll let y’all know. When should I take my next dose?
Btw the paste tastes great idk why people complain about it. Literally like apple sauce
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 5 points
I am taking 3mg of IVM every 3 days. I empty out a capsule of old medicine and inject IVM from syringe into the capsule, reassemble and swallow with whole milk. Fatty foods and liquids increase bio-availability 2.5X. I disagree with FLCCC's guidance and dog heartworm logic.
Doubts about FLCCC current IVM Prophylaxis guidelines. Given ivermectin's tissue half life (\~ 72 hours) , I have doubts about the current guidelines of this strategy.
Prophylaxis for high risk individuals
0.2 mg/kg* — one dose on day 1 and day 3, then take one dose every 4 weeks
This strategy would leave a number of days each month where no IVM would be in plasma or tissue based on the large initial dosing on days 1 and 3. 40mg total for a 100kg person. 3 mg every 3rd day would likely give higher protection for most of the month compared to this strategy and would preserve more IVM for if and when covid symptoms were detected. (Note: IVERCAR TUC uses 12mg per week)
Today's press conference was the 2nd time I've seen the dog's heartworm dosing discussed as a model. In the newly infected dog, it takes about 6 to 7 months for the infective larvae to mature into adult heartworms. Covid develops much faster. When you have months to arrest development then a month interval makes sense. But as fast as covid develops I think you'd want continuous protection.
Something more like IVERCAR (or IVERCAR TUC that keeps levels at a minimum level with the least amount of IVM makes more sense to me.
[-] smorgasmic | 5 points
I hope you realize that ivermectin works by interfering with critical cell biology. It downregulates importins, which move proteins from the cytoplasm into the nucleus of the cell. Keeping ivermectin active in your plasma around the clock without ever letting up might in fact be an extremely dangerous thing to do. You would be significantly impacting a critical biological function that involves the nucleus of your cells.
The prophylaxis protocols are designed to give you a short term burst of ivermectin, which is enough to interfere with viral replication (which uses importins) for a *few days*. That is enough to greatly impact viral load while minimizing the effect on your overall biology.
Unless you are a healthcare worker with constant exposure to Covid, I wonder if taking ivermectin should be saved for times when you have known - or high risk of - exposures. I don't think there are a ton of studies showing long term health effects from constant dosing.
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 1 points
Right now we ALL have constant exposure to covid. IVERCAR studies were long term and no AE or SAEs were noted. Ivermectin is not like an anti-biotic where misuse will result in resistance. Your point is worth considering but I believe taking the least amount of IVM as a prophy is beneficial compared to the risks.
[-] smorgasmic | 1 points
IVERCAR
If you have a link to a study that involved dosing twice a week or more often for months at a time, I would like to see it.
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 1 points
Take your choice - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ALeKk00QMA7zVMWBUXDuSqkFyy4f6wa60w%3A1607618803084&ei=81DSX9fIBJG0swXKr6eYDw&q=ivermectin+prophylaxis+study&oq=ivermectin+prophylacis+study&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDDIECCMQJ1AAWABgwMUCaABwAHgAgAFZiAFZkgEBMZgBAKoBB2d3cy13aXrAAQE&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiXjsTd7sPtAhUR2qwKHcrXCfMQ4dUDCAw
[-] smorgasmic | 2 points
Those are prophylaxis studies where they give two doses, and in some groups again every four weeks. My question was whether there were studies giving twice a week dose for months on end and then monitoring for side effects. You referenced IVERCAR so I thought you had a link to a specific study
oh my,
Covid isn't heartworms in people! It's my understanding that ivermectin keeps the virus from replicating. Please look up Dr. Kory's testimony on ivermectin (lots on youtube) and the math+ protocol at the FLCCC website https://covid19criticalcare.com
click on the I-MASK+ PROPHYLAXIS & EARLY OUTPATIENT TREATMENT PROTOCOL FOR COVID-19 etc
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 1 points
Exactly my point. Covid isn't heartworms and the FLCCC logic or explanation is faulty in my view. Good news is FLCCC changed the prophy strategy in version 6 yesterday to map better with the realities of IVM half life.
[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 2 points
Given ivermectin's tissue half life (~ 72 hours)
THAT is a fascinating fact! Would you post the source please?
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 1 points
Here's why god invented pubmed - you go there type these terms " half-life humans and ivermectin" and then read the data. You'll see different numbers because it depends on the method and tissue sample taken, as an example, ivm loves fat (you can pubmed that too) and come up with your own ~ range or number.
[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 2 points
We conducted a phase I clinical trial with 54 healthy adult volunteers who sequentially received 2 experimental treatments using a new 18 mg ivermectin tablet in a fixed-dose strategy of 18 and 36 mg single dose regimens, compared to the standard, weight based 150–200 μg/kg, regimen. Volunteers were recruited in 3 groups based on body weight. Plasma concentrations of ivermectin were measured through HPLC up to 168 hours post treatment. Safety data showed no significant differences between groups and no serious adverse events: headache was the most frequent adverse event in all treatment groups, none of them severe. Pharmacokinetic parameters showed a half-life between 81 and 91 h in the different treatment groups. When comparing the systemic bioavailability (AUC0t and Cmax) of the reference product (WA-ref) with the other two study groups using fixed doses, we observed an overall increase in AUC0t and Cmax for the two experimental treatments of 18 mg and 36 mg. Body mass index (BMI) and weight were associated with t1/2 and V/F, probably reflecting the high liposolubility of IVM with longer retention times proportional to the presence of more adipose tissue.
Fortunately I have lots of adipose tissue! (Not as much as I used to; I working on it.)
[-] [deleted] | 1 points
[deleted]
[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 2 points
In the newly infected dog, it takes about 6 to 7 months for the infective larvae to mature into adult heartworms. Covid develops much faster.
Interesting point.
I'm dosing every Sunday and Wednesday. I have Alexa remind me. I thought that movie about the guy who falls in love with an Alexa analog was silly. Not so much anymore. ;)
[-] Fun-Hall-1351 | 4 points
I take a dose every 7-10 days. Been doing this since mid-May. Pretty sure I’m worm free.
[-] DreadPyriteRoberts | 3 points
Did you notice any side-effects? My chronic itching went away, and blepharitis. Mites.
[-] Fun-Hall-1351 | 2 points
The arthritis in my fingers feels less painful for a few days after a dose. No Negative side effects at all.
Most likely due to ivermectin's anti-inflammatory effects. It's very effective for inflammation and that's one of the theories about why it may help long-haulers despite them having no live virus in their system.
[-] LiveLoveLife1969 | 2 points
I had the same effect in fingers and no side effects.
Are there any downsides to ongoing ivermectin use? Contraindications etc?
[-] Haitchpeasauce | 3 points
I heard report of some contraindications if you are on immunosuppressants for things like organ transplants. Ivermectin might interact in the liver with these drugs.
[-] tateTheMate2020 | 2 points
I didn't tolerate a half dose very well, but I was taking a high dose of niacin and a statin at the time.
Thanks for this. Makes sense to be fully aware of downsides before taking or recommending in any way. It does seem remarkably safe in correct doses from what I've read.
[-] Haitchpeasauce | 1 points
It's a safe drug but it's still a drug. For one thing self medication is contraindicated, but if we must do such a thing then we have to make sure we understand the risks and effects fully.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
The main answer is: ivermectin is very safe, don't worry about it.
I'm not expert about this, but one contraindication is meningitis because that weakens the blood-brain barrier and ivermectin can get into your brain. I donot know that that's a particularly huge deal. I'm aware of just 2 cases where the BBB was apparently penetrated; both patients recovered in 2 days after stopping ivermectin.
A recent TIL for me (from here) is:
ivermectin oral increases effects of warfarin oral by unknown mechanism. Increased blood levels of drugs may occur with rare but serious interactions.
No doubt there are more than I haven't heard of. Sorry I can't be definitive.
[-] smorgasmic | 1 points
And what would be the harm of ivermectin in the brain? What were the symptoms?
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 2 points
Update: no side effects (I took a tooth size amount and swallowed it down with food)
My plan is to take an inch of paste every 6-7 days. Should be enough for prevention?
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
I do have-an-inch on Sundays and Wednesdays. Keeps the blood level higher.
Take again in a week, then every two-four weeks or prior to risk events.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 1 points
Can I take it more than once within 3 days? Don’t know if my dad is carrying it or not until he shows symptoms so is it safe for me to take the regular prevention dose for 3 days straight just in case?
[-] blueheelercd | 1 points
oh my,
Please look up Dr. Kory's testimony on ivermectin (lots on youtube) and the math+ protocol at the FLCCC website https://covid19criticalcare.com
click on the I-MASK+ PROPHYLAXIS & EARLY OUTPATIENT TREATMENT PROTOCOL FOR COVID-19 etc
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
It's posted to the sub several times. :)
[-] smorgasmic | 1 points
What is the volume of material in the entire horse syringe? You could express that as total number of inches if you like.
Did you dial in a weight on the syringe? Maybe you could explain how the syringe works. I read the instructions online require it to be twisted and then lowered to a target weight before it is plunged? How does that work? After a single use, is there a way to use the unused amount later?
The measure is by weight, in the example I have, 6.08 g of a 1.87% (by weight) paste, so the whole syringe contains 113.7 mg ivermectin.
It's a bit like a syringe. The initial large fraction of an inch or so of plunger travel doesn't express any paste. After that, there are markings for weight on the plunger for horse weight, in 250 lb increments, as well as regular crenulations on another side of the plunger that permit some subdivision. With a steady hand, it's not difficult to press out (one's own weight/250 lb, in inches) to yield a close to 0.2 mg/kg dose.
There's a cap that reseals the end. I just cut off the expressed amount of paste with a clean/sterile butter knife, add the cap, and put it in the refrigerator. Taste is as apple sauce with no sweetness, and a hint of a aspirin tablet mixed in.
[-] smorgasmic | 1 points
The instructions on the durvet horse paste indicate that the storage temperature should be 68F to 77F with no excursion below 59F. You might want to call them and find out what happens if it is refrigerated, because you would obviously be way out of that range.
Not concerned. The worst that could happen is solvent crystals.
These tubes are designed for one time use with horses, not to be shelf stable once opened. If the non-active ingredients provide a substrate for bacteria, I'd rather they be at 40F than 80F for a month between doses.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
This is a valuable point.
I'm dosing twice a week and the tube sits on my desk between dosings. It's uncapped for about a 30 seconds, as I extrude the appropriate amount, swipe, put it in my mouth, and replace the cap. I have never observed any difference in the appearance or flavor of the paste, when taking it after it's been exposed to air. I haven't been looking closely, either. Maybe the fridge is a better place than my desk.
[-] [deleted] | 1 points
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
Use this chart. Extrude the appropriate amount -- for me at 200#s it's half-an-inch. If too much comes out, just pull on the plunger and it will go back in. Swipe with your finger, put it in your mouth.
It's really easy.
[-] wookiee666 | 1 points
Took my first dose today. Apple flavored. Licked it off a spoon and swallowed. It was like nothing to me. Just a taste of green apple.
My wife didn't like it. She said that it was too tangy and dried her mouth out for a few seconds and could barely taste the apple.
I'm confused, it's a tube of 6.08 g of a 1.87% (by weight) paste, for a 1200 lb horse. Wouldn't a 200lb man need 1g? Or 1/6th of the tube? 200lb x 6=1200lb. Am I looking at this wrongly? Somebody put me on the right path here.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 2 points
I honestly don’t know either. Others have eyeballed it and take half an inch of paste every week. I take half an inch every 5 days. Waiting for my 12mg tablets to come for better accuracy
You find a physician to get the tablets from? That would make things easier to understand.
[-] Main_Performer4701 | 2 points
Nope. Bought them from a pharmacy in India for cheap.
[-] LiveLoveLife1969 | 1 points
I took 1st and 3rd dose. I noticed that it had anti inflammatory actions to it. I was worried about negative effects but only felt positive ones. Just hope it helps keep me protected.
[-] Sanpaku | 5 points | Dec 09 2020 20:27:12
Obviously, veterinary ivermectin won't be recommended by any medical professional, but from a typical label:
This syringe contains sufficient paste to treat one 1250 lb horse at the recommended dose rate of 91 mcg ivermectin per lb (0.2 mg/kg) body weight). Each weight marking on the syringe plunger delivers enough paste to treat 250 lb body weight.
The FLCCC's I-MASK+ prophylaxis protocol for post Covid19 exposure is 0.2 mg/kg doses on days 1 & 3. For those with continuing high risk exposure (think, frontline health care workers), this continues with the same doses weekly for 10 weeks, followed by biweekly doses.
It's convenient that the dosing per weight (0.2 mg/kg) is the same for horses as for the I-MASK+ protocol, and incidentally, for monthly heartworm prevention in dogs. As a 200 lb owner (at low risk of exposure) of a 50 lb dog, we have a monthly arrangement.
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