Impressive_Run8581 | 17 points
Any hesitation, doubts or concerns with using IVM 1.87% horse gel?I am worried about ERs and ICUs being full this winter and no supply of IVM from pharmacies - yet alone ability to get and fill a script. The Frontline Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance has established the need for early treatment of covid 19 with IVM. I see dozens of examples of people on Amazon reviewing the product and on Twitter that have used IVM without issue. What do people personally think here? Please don't cite the FDA - I already know what they think. Thanks.
[-] speir_parts | 5 points
I have an mg scale and have been using that to weigh out doses of the Durvet paste for my *ahem* horse. I've been dosing the recommended amount for prophylaxis, 2x a week, 2 hours after a fatty meal, planning to continue until vaccine is available.
My horse did stop drinking entirely because of concerns about interaction w the Ivermectin.
Seems like Alldaychemist has the tablet form available, but I'm still fence-sitting about whether I care enough to spend more for that versus the horse paste.
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 5 points
Dec 1 - I see my MD who has no problem writing IVM. If I can get a good stockpile of 3mgs, I'll be returning a lot of horse paste to Amazon and Tractor Supply. Might do a taste test to see which one I like more. The Durvet tastes like apples as much as a 9v battery tastes like chocolate.
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 2 points
I was a little concerned about BBB and cyp3a4 inhibitors while taking IVM. I stopped taking diltiazem and didn't resume as it appears I no longer need it. Per Ice_9 "BBB rejection of ivermectin is by active pumps, not passive diffusion" but if one can, best not to have too many cyp3a4 inhibitors going at once. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin#Adverse_effects
[-] speir_parts | 2 points
😂😂😂 it’s like if you took a bag of the bitterest apple skins known to man, boiled them down, and then scented them w eau de jolly rancher green apple.
[-] tateTheMate2020 | 1 points
That's a good idea. I tried half a dose of paste and had a pretty strong reaction. Headaches and leg pain. I take high dose niacin and a statin, so that was a bad combination. I'm reducing the niacin to get off it completely, in the event I need to take the ivermectin.
[-] bikes4paul | 2 points
You have a very disciplined horse to give up drinking during these times! ;)
[-] BillyBob_TX | 5 points
Been taking Durvet, it has the most bland taste of several I've tried.
1 notch per 50 lbs. Been taking since April or so twice a week. No ill effects, and no rona.
[-] foggynotion | 4 points
I've been using the Durvet 1.87% Apple Flavor version without any problems, standard dose with food 200mcg/kl (3 notches) once a week for the past couple months now. I was able to get some tablets back before doctors had it on their radar. Decided to save those for my mom and brother since they are highly questionable of the horse version haha.
the only strong caution I would suggest is that even the human medication in this country is barely, vaguely regulated with only self-reporting and factories in India that are inspected only once in their lifetimes if ever (there's articles and books on this)
you can just imagine what's not done with animal medication, the binders folded into the mix, etc.
sure you can get feedback from people who have used it for a month without dying, but you'll never know what the long term liver and kidney effects might be from the additives
a horse has several times more mass than a human and can tolerate a lot more than we can
I personally do not believe in ivermectin as a preventative, I don't think it works that way unless you get really lucky with the timing and happen to take it 24 hours within exposure to covid
That "golden hamster" study seems to imply it works on covid not so much because it's anti-viral but because of effects on IL-6 and IL-10 proteins which would only spike -after- infection not before unless you had another illness going on
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 2 points
Everyone (humans and horses) should dose according to weight.
As far as being a prophylaxis the Argentinian study is solid enough. A research friend of mine says the nasal spray shouldn't make a difference.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 2 points
A research friend of mine says the nasal spray shouldn't make a difference.
Dr. Carvallo (lead author of the Argentine study) has said that twice, in a TrialSiteNews article and in a TV interview that some news site wrote up -- both posted to the sub if you want to look for them.
[-] nakedrickjames | 1 points
sure you can get feedback from people who have used it for a month without dying, but you'll never know what the long term liver and kidney effects might be from the additives
This is my main concern about the horse paste, although I'll point out the same can be said for the virus itself (and probably with higher risk, frankly) /u/TrumpLyftAlles had mentioned his son was a med student and is also taking it, perhaps he can chime in with his take?
Yes, horses have a lot more mass on average but there's nothing on the packaging recommending against use on smaller breeds or foals. Being a medication sold OTC, one would think there's a fair margin of safety and that just about everything in it would be designed to be minimally damaging. The stuff doesn't have a super long shelf life, so I can't imagine there's anything crazy in it. Perhaps we need to reach out to a pet pharmacist or vet to try and figure out exactly what the risk profile is.
Farnam (more of a cream) seems less evenly mixed, somehow less consistent, than Durvet (more of a gel).
Ivermectin can be found in very cheap 5mg or 7.5mg dosed pill on Aliexpress (100 pills for 7$) - for sheep or dogs.
Be careful to check the dosage you receive (got 7.5mg when ordering 5mg).
Also everything is written in chinese...
Mind the postal service duration if you order there.
[-] Fun-Hall-1351 | 3 points
I’ve taken a dose every week since mid May. I have no side effects and have not been infected with the Rona. I’ve taken both the horse paste and liquid
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 3 points
I was pleased that Marik did not go into an FDA like diatribe on horse gel last night. It wouldn't have made a difference but he gets it. We may be on our own in January and if word breaks on IVM (as it may and should) it may not be available or pharma will ask FDA to pull from vet shelves. Remember what happened with doxy and lyme a few years ago?
"According to a U.S. House committee investigating price hikes in several generic drugs, the average wholesale price of 500 tablets in October 2013 was $20. Seven months later, the average wholesale price for the same amount was $1,849, an increase of more than 8,000 per cent. "
https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2015/09/24/cost-doxycycline-skyrockets
[-] wallahmaybee | 2 points
Would you mind explaining for a Kiwi what happened with doxy and lyme in the US?
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 2 points
https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2015/09/24/cost-doxycycline-skyrockets
[-] wallahmaybee | 2 points
Wow, thank you. We're lucky we have Pharmac buying in bulk for the whole country.
No none whatsoever. And if I start running around the backyard all day looking for hay do not be alarmed !
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 3 points
I knew IVM was the right drug when my voice cracked and I realized I was a little hoarse. : )
Seriously - I'd prefer to have a supply of the 3mg pills and will try to get more from my MD. I have 13 right now and plan to take 1 more 3mg as a test.
If you get covid and have symptoms you don't want to delay. Covid more likely to be a clinical diagnosis vs a + test - 20% of people with covid will test negative.
[-] ilovekitty1 | 1 points
I don’t understand how to calculate the dosing.
[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 2 points
Go to here and then look at the tables in the PDF https://covid19criticalcare.com/
Video here might help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AexpeCn08n0&t=2s
[-] bikes4paul | 5 points | Nov 24 2020 16:46:07
I have very little concerns with the Durvet IVM. Considering the lack of oversight with FDA "Regulated" medications and the recent massive voluntary recalls of contaminated drugs such as metformin, and anti-hypertensives out of India and China I'd say that the Canadian produced paste might even be a safer option. The safety margin in dosing is extremely high with IVM as doses up to 2000mcg/kg have been studied in humans with zero increase in adverse effects. Trials are currently running with up to 1200mcg/kg for 5 consecutive days. I wouldn't dose at those levels but it goes to show that if the mixing of fillers is not uniform, the concentration isn't spot on, or the person dosing it makes a mistake the risk is still very low. I don't take it for prophy mainly because I'm in a low risk situation (no comorbidities, and minimize exposure risks). However, if I were to show symptoms I'd immediately take the paste at 400mcg/kg on days 1, 3 and 5. I'd also employ a number of adjuncts including other meds, vitamins, supplements, and other measures that I have at the ready.
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[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 2 points | Nov 24 2020 19:59:57
The MSDS for Durvet's IVM lists the main ingredients as proprietary. I haven't looked in patents to see if they might show up there. Yes made in Canada and I doubt they want to be responsible for any dead horses as they can be valued higher than many humans. (grin) Oral toxicity for rats is 10mg/kg - none of us are even going fractional to that.
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[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 2 points | Nov 24 2020 20:16:37
My covid toolbox includes bromhexmine, ambroxol, niclosamide, colchicine, prednisone, IVM, vitamins B1, C, D3 (maintain 64ng/ml with 5000 IU daily) I also have quercetin and iso-quercetin, zinc w copper (15:1), monolaurin, luteolin w rutin and artemisinin. I'd like to have more steroids and doxycycline and prefer to have IVM 3mg over the paste for other family members if needed.
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[-] ibexrecurve | 1 points | Nov 25 2020 00:47:03
That's a lot of drugs! Is there any evidence that any of those have efficacy against covid?
I personally have budesonide and a nebulizer on hand just in case I get it.
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[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 3 points | Nov 25 2020 03:06:30
I've been following Ice9 for 6 months and buying these drugs from all over the world. Everything he posts checks out and is backed by research. To be clear luteolin and monolaurin are NOT ice recs nor in his toolbox. I have not taken artemisinin. I have elderberry but it is tricky to use if you're not sure where in stage you are. Best not to use it.
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[-] ibexrecurve | 1 points | Nov 25 2020 06:20:47
Ice9? The twitter account? (That seemed to be the most plausible answer after googling it)
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[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 1 points | Nov 25 2020 11:00:53
Yes.
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[-] mywindowpane | 1 points | Nov 28 2020 06:36:09
What is the dosage for each of these, and at what point in the disease, or for prophylaxis, do you take them?
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[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 2 points | Nov 28 2020 07:16:18
I followed Ice9's information on this which coresponds with typical dosing for each drug - as an example bromhexmine is TID, Niclosamide is BID followed by 1x - but I did BID for 2 days then 1x. Ambroxol syrup was variable to symptoms. All meds were taken in pulmonary stage.
Basically, I follow the directions and adjust for size/weight and severity.
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[-] Impressive_Run8581 | 1 points | Nov 24 2020 20:51:53
IDK - but I feel safe to assume IVM is mixed and suspended well enough to give consistent doses based on weight.
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[-] DuelingKeytarBears | 1 points | Nov 29 2020 18:59:15
how would you measure mcg on a scale? seems impossible for paste
edit: found it here https://imgur.com/0w0Ido2
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