RichardRogers1949 | 9 points
Ivermectin as a preventativeDoes anyone know the correct dosage for Ivermectin when used as a preventative?
Thank you for your help.
Richard
[-] ibexrecurve | 3 points
Is anyone here actually doing this?
[-] Fun-Hall-1351 | 3 points
Yes. I have. Every week since mid May.
this logic will never work, never unless you got crazy lucky on timing, you can't "build immunity" with it, you are counting on it's anti-viral action which means the virus has to be already present
the half-life is less than a day and you can't take ivermectin every single day for the next year
just take it at the first sign of symptoms and remember to take it for several days at that point, not just a single dose like some weird studies/clinic
this logic will never work, not unless you got crazy lucky on timing, you can't "build immunity" with it, you are counting on its anti-viral action which means the virus has to be already present
the half-life is less than a day and you can't take ivermectin every single day for the next year
just take it at the first sign of symptoms and remember to take it for several days at that point, not just a single dose like some weird studies/clinics
I know y'all are terrified of getting covid but unfortunately you do have to go through at least a week of mild symptoms and you want that anyway if you are going to build antibodies
and remember you still need to quarantine, even on ivermectin you are still infectious
1. My view on using IVERMECTIN (IVM) as a preventative (aka preventive or prophylaxis) is as follows.
2. We IVM fans are all aware of the impressive results that have been documented via observational studies (anecdotal experiences). Unfortunately, these results have not included those from Clinical Trials procedures, a circumstance which is used to unreasonably condemn the results by the dogmatic purists.
3. It is a relatively straightforward process to establish results using observational studies, when IVM is used as a cure or a treatment for patients who are already infected with the Coronavirus. All that is generally involved is to confirm that a patient is already infected by testing, then providing that patient with a given dosage of IVM, then confirming some days later (generally 7 days or less) that the patient has recovered because the patient feels well & testing confirms that COVID-19 infection no longer exists. Simple!
4. Confirming that IVM is successful as a preventative is far more complicated, even when done as a Clinical Trial. One of the biggest problems is being able to confirm whether the Test Patient (TP) has actually been sufficiently exposed to the virus to become infected by chance. Then there's the problem associated with a TP who is being treated only with a placebo, a requirement of a Clinical Trial, then being fully exposed to a deadly virus that could end in the death of that TP. Such a situation has generally been considered as medically unethical.
5. I very recently read or heard that a Clinical Trial group had resolved this problem by calling for volunteer TPs. First, these TPs would be given a dose of IVM or a placebo, then would be injected with the virus to ensure that exposure to the virus had actually occurred instead of occurring by chance. Of course, the volunteer TPs were required to sign a waiver in case they did become infected & then died, or suffered from Long Covid or some other serious complication. Those Clinical Trials have only just started, so it'll be some time before we see any results from them.
6. As a result of these & other problems, successful use as a preventive is difficult to confirm, not to mention determining the minimum dosage which is efficacious. These are similar to the problems which are reflected by the points raised in readers' Comments.
7. I'm not a doctor nor am I involved in any way in the medical trade. However, I have been interested in health (especially my own health), health food supplements, avoiding the need for medications by maintaining a highly effective immune system with the right foods & supplements, etc. Consequently, I have a reasonable working knowledge of some medications, especially IVM.
8. My belief is that it is generally not a good idea to consume any medication more than is absolutely necessary. Using IVM constantly as a preventive puts you into the position of not knowing if you're taking an insufficient amount, or possibly taking too much. If it's too little, then you'll become infected, or if it's too much then you won't become infected but you're wasting the IVM & money by consuming too much. You're also wasting IVM & money by taking too little because it didn't stop you becoming infected.
9. My answer to this conundrum is as follows:
9.1. The most common MINIMUM dosage that I've seen quoted for IVM as a preventive is one Standard Single Dose (my terminology) every 7 days. A Standard Single Dose is 1×3mgTablet of IVM per 15-to-20kg Body Wt OR 1x6mgTablet of IVM per 30-to-40kg Body Wt. (1kg = 2.2lbs, so 15-to-20kg = 33-to-44lbs & 30-to-40kg = 66-to-88lbs.) If you care to use a greater dosage or frequency for some reason, that shouldn't be a problem, although I wonder at the value of doing so. IVM has been Clinically Tested with an overdose of 10x standard without any serious side-effects.
9.2. Generally, I suggest you don't use IVM as a preventive except as follows:
9.2.1. If you are a Health Care Worker or something similar who is constantly exposed to areas that are infected with COVID-19, & you believe your ppe is insufficient to protect you, or was insufficient to protect on a particular day, then take a Standard Single Dose as soon as you get home, or while still at work if carrying IVM on your person or if you have it in a safe place at work, say in a sealed box with your name on it, & the box is kept in a cool place like a refrigerator. Carrying IVM on your person has one down side. Generally, medication should be kept cool to prevent deterioration, so I suggest you don't keep IVM in your pocket for extended periods of time.
9.2.2. If you are about to make a visit to an area which has a greater threat of infection than normal, say a densely packed bar or a music festival, then wear appropriate equipment such as a face mask, & adopt appropriate procedures like elbow shakes ilo any handshakes, etc. If that's not possible, or you ended up inadvertently exposing yourself more than intended, then take a Standard Single Dose of IVM as soon as you get home, or immediately if you're still out & about & if carrying IVM on your person. In this regard, note the recommendation re keeping medication cool in 9.2.1.
10. Should you adopt the procedures suggested in paragraph 9, but you end up becoming infected anyway, just take a Standard Single Dose of IVM IMMEDIATELY after you know you're infected due a test result. If no test is immediately available, then take a Standard Single Dose of IVM IMMEDIATELY after you reasonably suspect infection due to listed symptoms eg dry cough, aches, elevated body temperature etc. Even if you're not sure, take a Standard Single Dose anyway. You've got nothing to lose, & IVM is not a threat to your health, even if you're not infected.
11. That's it for my suggestions. Any comments are welcome. Now please allow me to ask a question. How have you been able to acquire a prescription for IVERMECTIN when COVID-19 infection is not listed as a disease for which IVM is an approved medication, either as a preventive or a curative by the FDA (USA) or the TGA (Australia)?
[-] msa57injnb7epls4nbuj | 1 points
My doctor now recommends 0.4mg every 2 weeks. Not sure if that's any different than the 0.2mg every week
this logic will never work, never unless you got crazy lucky on timing
the half-life is less than a day and you can't take ivermectin every single day for the next year
just take it at the first sign of symptoms and remember to take it for several days at that point, not just a single dose like some weird studies/clinic
[-] Haitchpeasauce | 2 points
If I recall, the studies look at serum levels of Ivermectin? Given it is highly sequestered in the tissues like the lungs, the effective half life could be much longer. Knowing this will better inform any prophylaxis protocol.
having experienced severe covid and ivermectin personally, I know firsthand that the day after your last ivermectin dose you can feel all assistance has stopped
maybe just maybe if the virus is in some kind of very early stage the low dose in your system can do something but given how ivermectin has to attach to covid I doubt it, just because it's in your tissues it's not going to "seek it out" and attack it
this logic will never work, never unless you got crazy lucky on timing
the half-life is less than a day and you can't take ivermectin every single day for the next year
just take it at the first sign of symptoms and remember to take it for several days at that point, not just a single dose like some weird studies/clinic
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
For unknown reasons, this was stuck in the moderator queue. Sorry for the delay.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
the half-life is less than a day
It doesn't go away entirely. There's evidence that ivermectin levels fall, then rise because of actions of the liver. I've seen estimates of its half-life as high as 50 hours, depending I guess on conditions I don't recall.
Dr. Carvallo (Argentina prophylaxis) said that he's has seem results similar to the perfect IVERCAR 788 trial, without the carrageenan: 12mg weekly.
Who knows? Not me. Just making a guess.
this logic will never work, never unless you got crazy lucky on timing
the half-life is less than a day and you can't take ivermectin every single day for the next year
just take it at the first sign of symptoms and remember to take it for several days at that point, not just a single dose like some weird studies/clinic
[-] stereomatch | 3 points | Oct 28 2020 17:14:44
The dose often mentioned is the standard 200microgram/kg dose once a week.
For a 60kg person that would be 12mg Ivermectin weekly.
NOTE: ivermectin should be taken with a fatty meal for 2.5x bioavailability.
If you have 6mg tablets, that can be taken as one tablet in the morning, and one in the evening - every Sunday (as an example).
EDIT: Ivermectin has a half-life of 18 hours - so the idea with weekly dose is perhaps that no matter what day of the week you get infected, you are never more than 3-4 days away from an Ivermectin peak in your blood.
Generally almost no side effects, but should be avoided for those with weak blood/brain barrier - ie if suffering from meningitis, or if pregnant/lactating (to avoid danger to baby), and for very young children (who may have weaker blood/brain barrier).
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 3 points | Oct 28 2020 19:36:32
Edit: I may be the only person on Earth advocating for twice-a-week. Some think once-a-month is good, or once every three months. On the other hand, one person in the Facebook Ivermectin MDs group said:
I have several colleagues who work in the ICU and take it every day !!!
The fact is we have very little data on what works. I'm erring on the ivermectin-is-benign-and-stops-covid19 side.
End: Edit
Good answer -- except I don't see how you get once-a-week from the 18-hour half-life. You're down to 12.5% of the original blood level after 72 hours. I think it implies twice-a-week.
EDIT: Ivermectin has a half-life of 18 hours - so the idea with weekly dose is perhaps that no matter what day of the week you get infected, you are never more than 3-4 days away from an Ivermectin peak in your blood.
This might make sense, given that the incubation period seems to be about 5 days. Dose on Sunday, get exposed on Thursday when your blood level is 6% of original, the virus grows on Friday Saturday Sunday until whatever time you take the drug on Sunday. Might work. I'd rather dose on Sunday and Wednesday (my current regimen) so when I'm exposed on Thursday, the virus doesn't take hold.
if suffering from meningitis, or if pregnant/lactating (to avoid danger to baby), and for very young children (who may have weaker blood/brain barrier).
AFAIK meningitis is a theoretical problem, with no actual cases recorded. What happens when ivermectin crosses the BBB? No one knows, AFAIK. I don't think there's a basis for assuming it's fatal.
While it's always prudent to be careful with poorly-researched areas like pregnant women and babies -- the theory that babies has an inferior blood-brain barrier has been dispensed with. Merck says ivermectin is safe for pregnant women.
From here:
To the Editor:
We thank Davidson and colleagues1 for their comprehensive narrative review on skin infections in Australian Aboriginal children. A significant factor in both individual and mass drug administration therapy of scabies is the uncertainty regarding the safety of oral ivermectin in small children and during pregnancy. Australian guidelines state ivermectin should not be used in children aged under 5 years or who weigh less than 15 kg or in pregnant women.2 A retrospective cohort study of 170 children aged 1–64 months (median age, 15 months) or weighing under 15 kg treated with ivermectin (mean dose, 223 μg/kg) found only minor self‐limiting adverse effects in seven patients (4%).3 A review of previous literature found 60 children aged under 5 years or weighing less than 15 kg who had been treated with ivermectin at a dose range of 150–200 μg/kg for whom safety data were available.4 Only four of 60 children (7%) developed an adverse reaction, all of which were benign and transient, with no long term sequelae. A recent study of oral ivermectin (dose 400 μg/kg) in the treatment of head lice revealed no adverse effects in 54 children aged under 5 years.5 The Ivermectin Exposure in Small Children Study Group expected to commence the analysis in late 2019 of data collected from 2017 to 2019.6
Three studies totalling 363 women with inadvertent maternal exposure to ivermectin 150 μg/kg (76–85% in first trimester) for filariasis and onchocerciasis found no increased risk of congenital malformations, miscarriage or stillbirth.7 A study of 199 pregnancies with maternal treatment in the second trimester with ivermectin and albendazole, and 198 with ivermectin alone in the management of helminth infections, found no increased risk of adverse pregnancy outcomes.8 In France, the use of oral ivermectin is permitted during pregnancy and in children weighing less than 15 kg when topical therapy has failed.9 Further published data regarding the safety of ivermectin in these populations would be useful, particularly with respect to mass drug administration programs.
Given the hazard of covid-19 to the pregnant parent, IMO the hazard of ivermectin is worth the risk.
Has there been any research about the impact on babies when Mom gets covid-19?
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[-] stereomatch | 2 points | Oct 28 2020 19:47:01
There have been some doctors who have suggested more frequent than weekly dose. However, given we now have studies where this one time standard dose was enough to improve outcomes significantly, the once a week dosing seems like a reasonable balance.
Yes, some have suggested the risk to pregnant/lactating and small children is theoretical, but not hugely observed in practice, as in practice the anti-parasitic programs run around the world have not thrown up too many such cases - as it has wound up being administered to these risk groups as well - leading some to suggest that the actual risk may be much less than believed
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 3 points | Oct 28 2020 20:17:53
the once a week dosing seems like a reasonable balance.
Balance against what? Overdosing ivermectin? I'm unaware of any study that looks at long term consequences of taking ivermectin once a week, twice a week, once a month, etc.
That said, I always appreciate your posts, stereo. I'm may be too enthused about ivermectin to give balanced advice. Please contradict me as needed.
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[-] stereomatch | 2 points | Oct 28 2020 20:44:55
I say this because practically speaking people may not want to be taking a drug for too long if they are taking it for prophylaxis over a few months.
And they may be comfortable with a weekly dose.
Since Ivermectin has a half-life in plasma of 18 hours or so, if one repeats it every half week that may not give the body a break (?)
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 2 points | Oct 28 2020 20:51:06
Makes sense to me. :)
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[-] Haitchpeasauce | 5 points | Oct 29 2020 01:38:43
You have seen me write a fair bit about this importin mechanism. I have some concern about long term effects of chronically disrupting this pathway, since it's used in numerous signalling pathways necessary for healthy cell function. Maybe this effect is very brief and the risk is low, as I recall reading that cells expel the Ivermectin molecule quickly. I would say that more research is needed before taking Ivermectin regularly for extended periods.
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 2 points | Oct 29 2020 04:49:03
That's a good point I haven't considered. Hmmm.
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[-] Fun-Hall-1351 | 2 points | Oct 29 2020 02:12:08
Yes. I agree. I have take a dose of ivermectin every Saturday since mid May. 200mcg/kg
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