Ivermectin, Heparin and COVID-19: An interview with Dr. David Scheim

[-] stereomatch | 3 points | Sep 11 2020 23:27:15

This is a 2 month old interview, but I hadn't seen it before.

Dr David Scheim (US Public Health Service) is the author of the earlier paper on Ivermectin potential:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3636557

Ivermectin for COVID-19 Treatment: Clinical Response at Quasi-Threshold Doses Via Hypothesized Alleviation of CD147-Mediated Vascular Occlusion

22 Pages

Posted: 1 Jul 2020

David Scheim

US Public Health Service

Date Written: June 26, 2020

EDIT: adding a rough transcript

This video:

https://youtu.be/vTsrNzJveGU Ivermectin, Heparin and COVID-19: An interview with Dr. David Scheim

Here is a rough transcript:

HCQ - need 5-10 days to accumulate in tissues to the concentration required

Ivermectin - in 4 hours reaches peak in blood, and 4 hours more it peak in tissues

within 8 hours you have super high concentration

ivermectin typical dose is 200mcg/kg (18mg for 90kg person) - but you can take 10x that amount - are several toxicity studies

with a serious disease like covid19, you dont want to take the low dose

there are indications that there is a big dose response effect

and there are indications that people who are taking higher doses are getting much better results

ivermectin has half life of 18 hours in blood

however it seems the metabolites of ivermectin have a half life of 3 days

EDIT: he seems to mention here that if take ivermectin once a week perhaps it may not be sufficient as by 5th day effect of ivermectin and metabolites would be low

(however what he may not have noted is that if one infected on day 5 - then next weekly dose of ivermectin is only a day or two away - ie even with a weekly dose for high risk medical professionals, the virus would be not more than 3 or so days away from an ivermectin peak)

they discuss the Broward County, Florida hospital system data from Dr Ratjer

discusses someone who knew who improved dramatically when she took ivermectin - each time her breathing status declined, a dose of ivermectin would normalize symptoms

has a very quick and dramatic effect

10:15 minute mark mentions heparin

discusses 100 drugs that were examined for blocking covid19 spike protein binding - and top 3 were ivermectin, heparin and azithromycin

it adds credibility because all of those have been found to individually to have significant anti-covid19 effect

so though heparin may block similarly - for high dose of ivermectin there would be many more molecules than (typical ?) dose of heparin

interviewer: so would you suggest ivermectin plus heparin - would be ok?

answer: should be ok - ivermectin plus azithromycin or ivermectin plus doxycycline should be a good combination to give though

if I got sick would take the 2-3x days of the typical ivermectin dose of 200mcg/kg (18mg for 90kg person)

are some patients contra-indicated

you know ivermectin is one of the safest drugs in modern medical history

pregnancy etc ?

I am really not sure (it is that dangerous) for pregnancy

only contraindication would be if someone has a compromised blood-brain barrier

in some advanced stage covid19 there could be cases with compromised blood-brain barrier

if there is suspicion, one could take a lower ivermectin dose over two days instead of one day

it seems that if there are complications with central nervous system (with ivermectin and a compromised blood brain barrier) that the complications are not permanent (?)

says that with most drugs there are some cases of serious issues - so are no guarantees

but if one has covid19 it is a pretty serious thing - and ivermectin generally safe - and so seems ok to use ivermectin as aggressively as you can

15:50 - your paper explains covid19 and blood circulation issues - and how it similar to what happens in malaria

he says he discussed this with one on the French team who said in their testing a lot of the antimalarial drugs seems to have an effect on covid19

which got him thinking

the way malaria gets into cells is via the CD147 receptor

people talk about the ACE2 receptor - that is mostly how it propagates and replicates

but the CD147 receptor is much more prevalent in the body than ACE2 receptors

there are 1700 CD147 receptors on a red blood cell - there are not any ACE2 receptors

even on tissues that have ACE2 there may be like one per cell something like that

but CD147 receptor binds to covid19 virus - and to other cell - so can get clumping of red blood cells - and virus can bind to endothelial cell walls of blood vessel - so get all kinds of attachments

18:40 - he hypothesized "catch and clump" - then found out almost exact same thing happens in severe malaria

and then it turns out enveloped viruses like covid19 routinely clump with red blood cells

20:00 - this understanding matches what see with age dependence of covid19

younger you are blood flow is much faster (earlier had mentioned turbulence in blood breaks the weak binding/clumping between red blood cells)

number 2 is blood type dependence - type A most susceptible to covid19, type B next and then O - that is exactly what happens with malaria

because type A and to lesser extent type B have some sticky receptors

number 3 is females have about 10pct less red blood cells per liter

the less have less tendency for them to clump

with covid19 haemoglobin goes down - and could be because red blood cells clumping and getting stuck to cell walls etc. - which leading to low appearance on tests for haemoglobin ..

22:00 minute mark

there are people who use oxymeter on finger and show really low oxygen but feel fine

this could be if their peripheral circulation is being hindered (points to fingers)

(basically it could be that lower blood flow in fingers is making the oxymeter - which attaches to fingertip - is giving a lower oxygen saturation value)

and if there are hindrances in the circulation in lungs, it could be that clumping could account for that

that may explain why covid19 patients lung issues dont fit typical lung disease

so it could be that all this blood based clumping accounts for much that is going on in covid19

23:10 minute mark

interviewer: and how does ivermection affect the clumping ?

answer: the spike protein binding study which ivermectin, heparin and azithromycin as top 3 binding candidates - all of which shown to have efficacy - makes for a compelling argument

it appears that ivermectin binds to the spike protein - that then cannot bind to any other cellular receptor

and it seems like a lower concentration may unclump the blood clots over time

which would depend on how far clumping has progressed - if it has not progressed too much, you could have a dramatic effect as all the clumping is reversed within a day

and if there was a higher concentration it might block all the bindings to ACE2 (remember he said above that ivermectin levels peak in tissue within 8 hours) - in which case the virus has fewer targets to bind to (to gain entry into cells and replicate)

24:30 minute mark

interviewer: in your paper you talk about the immune system and clotting works

there is a phenomenon called immune adherence

white blood cells also have CD147 receptors (like red blood cells) - as immune response ratchets up the white blood cells ramps up - and may also get stickier - so it could be that these clumps involve white blood cells etc too ..

interviewer: so the use of drugs to reduce immune overreaction may be helping reduce the clumping (by reducing white blood cells) ?

answer: reducing immune overreaction may help in other ways

but it could be that it may help reducing participation of white blood cells in the clumping

this immune adherence where red cell binds to virus and thee white cell attaches may be one of the ways immune system works (to shepherd virus to the white cell)

so it could be this clumping phenomenon is just the immune system trying to do its job

26:30 minute mark

interviewer: you mentioned low blood flow making clumping easier - could it be that exercise as a daily routine may help ie increase blood flow and make clumping harder (Dr Scheim had earlier mentioned that the clumping bonds are weak - so if blood flow is fast and has turbulence it can discourage the clumping)

answer: I bet it would

oh i forgot in a recent study of comorbidities they found patients with systolic blood pressure of 90 or less have a higher risk factor for covid19

(NOTE: systolic blood pressure is the higher number - which represents the blood pressure when heart is beating and pushing blood through the body - normal individual should have it around 120 or less, while typically people have it at 130 or higher if they suffer from blood pressure. While diastolic is the lower number and represents the blood pressure when heart is between beats or resting - usually it is below 75 for healthy individuals but can go up to 90 or higher if you are under tension or had too much caffeine or chocolate overdose).

(so while a low systolic bp is better, Dr Scheim is saying an abnormally low bp ie below 90 is a risk factor for covid19 - according to some studies on comorbidities for covid19)

it is a cascade - once clumps form it slows more which makes conducive for more clumps

also as lung clotting, ability to exercise goes down

regarding randomized control trial - big companies need many patients to show a small effect

but if the effect is so strong you dont need a randomized control trial to be convinced

interviewer: so a small randomized controlled trial would do too

answer: yes