TrumpLyftAlles | 7 points
Argentine CT shows carrageenan’s prophylactic effect against SARS-CoV-2 infection (Argentina 2020-09-02) Partial Trial Results - ProphylaxisThat’s f*ckn great! So so good to read this. Still a bit concerned about these quality control reviews. May the methodology have a major flaw? Hopes not. Not sure how long would it take to have a published paper or a decision?
Edit: I have a lot of contacts in Argentina. Will try to find out.
[-] No_Entertainment_764 | 1 points
[-] [deleted] | 1 points
[deleted]
[-] wallahmaybee | 1 points
By the way u/TrumpLyftAlles you were asking about Ivermectin and pregnant women and I got this
La ivermectina oral (Stromectol) tiene una categoría de embarazo C. Se ha demostrado que la ivermectina es teratogénica en ratones, ratas y conejos cuando se administra en dosis repetidas de 0.2, 8.1 , y 4,5 veces la dosis humana máxima recomendada, respectivamente (en mg / m2 / día). La teratogenicidad se caracterizó en las tres especies probadas por paladar hendido; También se observaron patas delanteras aporreadas en conejos. Estos efectos sobre el desarrollo se encontraron solo a dosis cercanas a las que fueron maternotóxicas para la mujer embarazada. Por lo tanto, la ivermectina no parece ser selectivamente fetotóxica para el feto en desarrollo. Sin embargo, no existen estudios adecuados y bien controlados en mujeres embarazadas. Ivermectina no debe usarse durante el embarazo ya que no se ha establecido la seguridad en el embarazo. En madres lactantes la ivermectina se excreta en la leche humana en bajas concentraciones.
from this pdf posted below by u/No_Entertainment_764 .
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 2 points
Oral ivermectin (Stromectol) has pregnancy category C. Ivermectin has been shown to be teratogenic in mice, rats, and rabbits when administered in repeated doses of 0.2, 8.1, and 4.5 times the maximum recommended human dose, respectively. (in mg / m2 / day). Teratogenicity was characterized in the three species tested by cleft palate; Clubbed forelegs were also observed in rabbits. These developmental effects were found only at doses close to those that were maternotoxic to the pregnant woman. Therefore, ivermectin does not appear to be selectively foetotoxic to the developing fetus. However, there are no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. Ivermectin should not be used during pregnancy as safety in pregnancy has not been established. Ivermectin is excreted in human milk in low concentrations in nursing mothers.
Thanks. There's a document on the sub from Merck that says ivermectin is safe for pregnant women, and nursing is safe for babies. I'll look at the PDF you linked later, busy. Thanks again!
[-] TotesMessenger | 1 points
[-] ibexrecurve | 1 points
Where can you get this carrageenan nasal spray in the US? I did find it on Amazon, but wondering if there is a better source.
Also, how many sprays does this give? If I were to use it 3x per day, how long would it last?
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
I just chanced across this. Great find, ibexrecurve! Did you happen to buy the spray? Any opinions about it you're willing to share? It's in my Amazon cart...
If you didn't buy it -- did you see the recent discussion where /u/tomatocoup provides a recipe for making the carrageenan spray?
[-] ibexrecurve | 2 points
I did buy it. This exact seller on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-X-BETADINE-Adult-Cold-Defence-Nasal-Spray-20ml-Drug-Free-13-75-ea-FREExpress/373149742188?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
It sprays up the nose just fine. I have been using it lately, once a day after a spray of fluticasone (downregulates ace2).
I will comment that it almost got seized and the seller didn't seem like they were going to reimburse me. I first got a random phone call from UPS asking what it was. I was almost clueless about what they were talking about because they didn't tell me exactly what it was. I wasn't about to admit over the phone that I did something illegal if I unknowingly did somehow. When I realized/remembered what it was they were talking about, I basically told them it was a supplement, because it wasn't a drug. Later got an email that said:
Good Afternoon,
According to my colleagues, this nasal spray is not a supplement. FDA usually does not allow US citizens to import medicine. There are exceptions to this rule are rare and are outlines in the FDA Personal Import policy. See link https://www.fda.gov/media/83411/download .
US citizens must provide a prescription and doctor's letter explaining why they are receiving the medicine. If doctor's letter and prescription cannot be provided, FDA detention is likely.
Thanks in advance, UPS Brokerage
I went back and forth with them a few times via email. I did actually request a prescription from my doctor, wrote up the whole letter for him satisfying all the requirements and he said no. Oh well! It is a drug-free and steroid free nasal spray. Zero risk, really, but they do make some sort of claim about preventing colds, so maybe that's why it's considered a "drug". I've even heard of the FDA seizing cherries because they made a health claim about heart disease, so that's what we have to deal with in the USA. Anyways, in a last attempt I sent over a product information sheet that I got from the ebay seller and they finally decided to release it without a prescription, but they made me pay an extra $25 import fee. Doh! So it ended up being something like $94 total for 5 of these sprays. Maybe not worth it. But I thought it may be worth it because I have to start travelling for work and figured it may help prevent infection if I travel on an airplane.
Supposedly there is 10 doses (2 sprays) per mL (according to the PDF in this thread, but it's in Spanish). In the study they were using it times per day to prevent infection.
Thanks for the link about making your own!
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
Supposedly there is 10 doses (2 sprays) per mL
Have you gone through a bottle yet? 20ML: how many sprays?
ALL of the eBay sellers are out of Malaysia so I would run into the same hassle. I think I'll buy the Amazon version even though it's more expensive. If using the spray isn't too onerous, I can use the bottle for the home-made stuff, I guess.
once a day after a spray of fluticasone (downregulates ace2).
Is there a study that put you onto this one? I searched /r/covid19 and /r/coronavirus and only turned up this post in the latter (about an article that's no longer there). A /r/ivermectin friend cautioned me against prophylactic use of corticosteroids because they suppress the immune system?!
[-] ibexrecurve | 2 points
I posted this in /r/covid19stack
https://www.reddit.com/r/covid19stack/comments/ix6p9s/pdf_the_inhaled_corticosteroid_fluticasone_eg/
[PDF] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.149039v1.full.pdf
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[-] ibexrecurve | 2 points
Is it really that bad to suppress the immune system with respect to covid? I thought the whole cytokine storm thing was an overreaction of the immune system. Probably not a simple answer to that, but worth thinking about.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 2 points
You don't want to suppress it during the infectious phase. You want ivermectin to work with a working immune system at the outset. Keep the fluticasone handy in case you find yourself in the cytokine phase.
Then again there's the logic of down-regulating ACE2. I don't know the answer. Maybe you should ask about fluticasone in the general question topics on /r/covid19 and /r/coronavirus?!
[-] ibexrecurve | 2 points
Have you gone through a bottle yet? 20ML: how many sprays?
No, I haven't gone through a bottle yet and haven't really been keeping track of the number of sprays.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
I guess I'll find out.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
The article that this post linked to went away. Here is another one.
1,195 Health Agents from different Assistance Centers voluntarily participated in the IVER.CAR protocol between June 1 and August 10, distributed in four assistance centers in Ezeiza, Caseros and Cañuelas.
Of the 1,195 Health Agents who participated in the trial, 788 received IVER.CAR, while 407 did not.
In the group that did not receive IVER.CAR, 237 infections (58%) were verified. Conversely, and in the group receiving IVER.CAR, no transmission were recorded.
The ethnic and age characteristics, previous health, personal protection measures, performance areas, work hours, and type of patients assisted were the same in each Center.
Here is an article about carrageenan vs covid-19 which links to this study.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points
OP's news story went away. Here is another, and here's the full text in case this alternative report goes away too.
#RESULTS POSITIVE OF THE PROTOCOL IVER.CAR IN THE PROPHYLAXIS OF THE AGENTS OF HEALTH
The combined use of IOTA-CARRAGENIN AND Ivermectin (PROTOCOL IVER. CAR) in the prophylaxis of health agents showed an effectiveness of one hundred percent, among those who received the treatment, revealed the study.
1, 195 Health Agents from different Assistance Centers voluntarily participated in the IVER. CAR protocol between June 1 and August 10, distributed in four assistance centers in Ezeiza, Caseros and Cañuelas.
Of the 1, 195 Health Agents who participated in the trial, 788 received IVER. CAR, while 407 did not.
In the group that did not receive IVER. CAR, 237 infections (58%) were verified. Conversely, and n the group receiving IVER. CAR, no transmission were recorded.
The ethnic and age characteristics, previous health, personal protection measures, performance areas, work hours, and type of patients assisted were the same in each Center.
The scientific design of the protocol was in charge of Carvallo Héctor Principal Investigator Medical Endocrinologist Former Assistant Prof. Internal Medicine, UBA; Prof. Asoc. Med. Interna UAI and UM Hirsch, Roberto Medical Sub-researcher Infectologist Director of the Infectology Specialist, UBA; Head of Department Infectious Diseases, Htal. Muñíz; Former Professor Infectology, UBA Nacucchio, Marcelo Sub-researcher Professor Titular, Dept. Pharmaceutical Technology, Faculty of Pharmacy and Biochemistry, UBA Cassará, María L Pharmaceutical Sub-researcher, Pablo Cassará Foundation, and Ghirardi, Patricio Sub-researcher Prof. Adjunct Reg., Faculty of Veterinary Sciences, UBA
The first protocol was coordinated by Héctor Carvallo, Roberto Hirsch, Marcelo Nacucchio, and Mirta Martín, professor of Dermatology at the University.
The second protocol is also in charge of Héctor Carvallo, along with Roberto Hirsch, Patricio Ghirardi and the pharmacist María Luz Cassará, from the Cassará Foundation, who provided the medication.
The comparisons of the results were not shared between the different Health Centers, to avoid the bias caused by the different influx and consequent assistance of COVID patients in each of them.
Rather, only the results within each of these Centers were compared. The summation was done only at the end.
PARTIAL RESULTS
I - HOSPITAL ZONAL GENERAL DE ACUDOS DR. ALBERTO ANTRANIK EURNEKIAN - EZEIZA :
Total participating personnel 730
600 received IVERCAR
130 did not receive IVERCAR
120 people infected (SARS-COV2), and were in the cohort that did not receive IVERCAR
II - ÁNGEL MARZETTI MUNICIPAL HOSPITAL - CAÑUELAS:
Total participating staff 150
90 received IVERCAR
60 did not receive IVERCAR
47 people infected (SARS-COV2), and were in the cohort that did not receive IVERCAR
III - CUENCA ALTA HOSPITAL. CAÑUELAS - CAÑUELAS:
Total participating staff 300
90 received IVERCAR
210 did not receive IVERCAR
65 infected people (SARS-COV2), and were in the cohort that did not receive IVERCAR
IV - Caseros Medical Center - CABA:
Total participating personnel 15
8 received IVERCAR
7 they did not receive IVERCAR
5 infected people (SARS-COV2), and were in the cohort that did not receive IVERCAR
FINAL RESULTS
In the present trial, 1, 195 Health Agents participated.
Of these, 788 received IVER. CAR, while 407 did not.
In the group that did not receive IVER. CAR, 237 infections (58%) were verified.
In the group that received IVER. CAR, there were NO infections.
In this protocol, medication was given for mild, moderate and severe cases. In the mild ones, ivermectin was given at a dose of 200 micrograms per kilogram of weight and aspirin to prevent hypercoagulability.
In moderate cases, the ivermectin dose was 400 micrograms and, in addition to aspirin, injectable dexamethasone, an anti-inflammatory drug, was added to prevent hyperinflammation in the lungs.
In severe cases, the ivermectin dose was increased to 600 micrograms, aspirin was replaced by enoxaparin, and dexamethasone was maintained.
"Both ivermectin, enoxaparin, dexamethasone and aspirin have been approved for many years, " said Héctor Carvallo, last June when the trials began.
“In all cases, ivermectin is given once a week, while the other drugs are given daily. The idea with ivermectin is not to completely eliminate the virus, with the aim of generating antibodies, in the manner of a vaccine produced by the body itself ”, he explained promptly.
Regarding the duration of the treatment, Carvallo explained that “we estimate that it will last 30 days on average. The cost of this treatment is estimated at 15 dollars per day ”.
Héctor Carvallo recalled that “in a study carried out in the United States according to the collection of information from 702 people treated with ivermectin worldwide, compared with other perfectly comparable patients, it was determined that only a third of those treated with ivermectin had a need of respirator and mortality was reduced from eight to one. That is very significant.
In this protocol, intended for healthy hospital staff, a nasal spray and oral drops are administered to protect the nose and mouth.
"The objective is to protect because if a health agent on duty becomes infected - he occupies the position he occupies - all the guard personnel, including cleaning people, have to go to quarantine, " said Cavallo.
The nasal spray has carrageenan, a product derived from red algae that acts as an emulsifier, widely used in pharmaceuticals and cosmetics.
Carrageenan has a virucidal effect, which is why it is present in long-life milk as a natural preservative.
Both ivermectin and carrageenan are highly concentrated in the salivary glands, generating an antisepsis in the droplets of saliva.
"Therefore, the healthy patient could be quite protected and the asymptomatic one would cease to be infectious, " said Carvallo.
[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 4 points | Sep 03 2020 09:43:13
This is a news story about this trial, which submitted results to ClinicalTrials, and had them returned for quality control reasons on 2020-08-27.
This is not the Corrientes, Argentina RCT that was posted on 2020-08-21. It may be an outgrowth of this small Argentine study which looked at the same treatment.
Title: USEFULNESS of Topic Ivermectin and Carrageenan to Prevent Contagion of Covid 19 (IVERCAR)
The study subjects were all health professionals. 788 HPs self-administered ivermectin + iota-carrageenan nasal spray 5 times a day over 14 days. 407 HPs received no treatment. There's no hint about how HPs were allocated to one group or the other, esp. whether they randomly assigned.
58% of the no-treatment HPs were infected by covid-19. 0% of the ivermectin+ HPs caught the virus.
100% of 788 health professionals were protected from covid-19 by ivermectin.
Prophylaxis, baby!!!
Wow. Can't wait for the real report!
In an eerie parallel to the Egypt prophylaxis study, 58% in the non-treatment group seems high.
Argentina’s Hospital Zonal General de Agudos, Hospital Municipal Ángel Marzetti, Hospital Cuenca Alta, and Centro Médico Caseros have released preliminary results of the IVERCAR randomized clinical trial (CT) evaluating iota-carrageenan + ivermectin in the prevention of SARS-CoV-2 contagion. The study was carried out between June 1 and August 10, 2020 and recruited 1,195 health professionals, of which 407 received no treatment and 788 self-administered ivermectin oral drops and an iota-carrageenan nasal spray five times per day over 14 days.
According to the data released, 58% of participants in the control group resulted infected with the virus during the trial, while no contagions were recorded in the carrageenan + ivermectin arm, showing that the compounds’ virucidal effects can protect against SARS-CoV-2 infection.
In addition, both molecules accumulate in the salivary glands, so they have the potential to prevent viral spread by asymptomatic patients by inactivating the viral particles in the saliva.
Never heard about accumulating in the salivary glands before.
Carrageenan:
A substance extracted from red and purple seaweeds, consisting of a mixture of polysaccharides. It is used as a thickening or emulsifying agent in food products.
From this Argentine study:
Comparison of a variety of compounds revealed that carrageenan, a type of sulfated polysaccharide extracted from red algae, is an extremely potent infection inhibitor for a broad range of sexually transmitted HPVs.
From this study:
Carrageenan has been suggested as an antiviral lube, and IIRC was tried in Africa vs HIV for that purpose, but also showed some efficacy vs HPV and herpes. Interestingly, its resemblance to heparan and heparin may be responsible.
(That may be a comment on the article, not a quote.)
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[-] fyodor32768 | 3 points | Sep 03 2020 12:17:39
100% of 768 health professionals were protected from covid-19 by ivermectin.
I mean, we don't know whether it was the Carrageenan or the Ivermectin. I've seen a lot of informed speculation that a good antiviral nasal spray could prevent the virus from entering.Also, what is there 100 percent number based on-was there some other information about symptoms or whatnot?
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[-] Z3rul | 2 points | Sep 03 2020 12:27:37
These are partial results. Egypt study had amazing numbers too. So this gives more weight to ivermectin as a prophylaxis treatment
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points | Sep 04 2020 02:30:07
We have a pretty good idea that ivermectin contributed, but you're right, the carrageenan may have helped and this study gives us no reason to think it didn't.
There's a trial underway, also Argentina but different researchers, looking at carrageenan alone, no other treatment.
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[-] fyodor32768 | 2 points | Sep 04 2020 19:15:05
yeah-I understand why many of these poorer countries are taking a kitchen sink approach, but it makes for not-great science.
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points | Sep 04 2020 02:31:19
Also, what is there 100 percent number based on-was there some other information about symptoms or whatnot?
You're looking at the same information as me. It's a news story, not too many details.
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[-] No_Entertainment_764 | 3 points | Sep 03 2020 13:18:42
RESULTADOS POSITIVOS DEL PROTOCOLO IVER.CAR ENLA PROFILAXIS DE LOS AGENTES DE SALUD: http://www.pharmabaires.com/1739-resultados-positivos-del-protocolo-iver-car-en-la-profilaxis-de-los-agentes-de-salud.html
Estudio de eficacia y seguridad para evaluar el uso de Ivermectina asociada a iota-Carragenina aplicada localmente en la cavidad bucal, en la profilaxis de la enfermedad COVID-19 en el personal de salud: https://www.cadenanueve.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Protocolo-IVERCAR-Sinopsis-y-Resultados.pdf
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points | Sep 03 2020 19:00:01
Estudio de eficacia y seguridad para evaluar el uso de Ivermectina asociada a iota-Carragenina aplicada localmente en la cavidad bucal
Wow, you're on top of things. I just posted that paper in English here. Would you please verify that the link works? I put it on Google docs and don't know if everyone has visibility.
Thank-you.
Thanks for the other link, too, looks good!
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[-] No_Entertainment_764 | 2 points | Sep 03 2020 20:04:12
It seems to be working. It requires permission to access though
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points | Sep 03 2020 20:18:46
Thanks, No. I can't figure out how to give permission to everyone in Google docs.
Can you try this link please?
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[-] No_Entertainment_764 | 2 points | Sep 03 2020 21:38:55
Yup, this one works!
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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points | Sep 03 2020 21:51:00
Excellent, thanks for letting me know!
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[-] pezo1919 | 2 points | Sep 03 2020 11:40:43
Amazing! Thanks for your work again!
However it’s not clear to me why Carrageenan is used (+how they found it out) and if its safe for everyone?
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