CockatooJimby | 15 points | Jun 23 2020 07:06:10

COVID19 Ivermectin-Saved lives in Toronto Nursing Home. Pandemic Protection-Turning Point? (Canada 22nd June, 2020)

Ivermectin used to treat scabies outbreak in nursing home. Was noted that residents given high dose Ivermectin didn't contract COVID-19. Appears to be an accidental RCT but access to data/media blocked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XCYzpHBEkI&feature=emb_logo

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[-] nojox | 2 points | Jun 23 2020 10:07:18

Since the doctor here is a dentist, expect it to not be taken seriously.

Edit: the loss of appetite in the old woman being discussed is probably due to the loss of smell and taste. And her "asymptomatic" and sudden death could be due to blood thickening.

I'm trying to poke holes in her argument because I want to be sure. The most important fact is mentioned just in the passing - that the whole floor is 80-85 and above, and yet has seen hardly any deaths at all.

Edit2:

The host in the video is a dentist but it seems the other Dr. Hibberd, her brother, Dr. Peter H. Hibberd, M.D., of Palm Beach County, Florida, is definitely qualified to talk about ivermectin:

http://www.pharmafile.com/news/550818/us-trial-ivermectin-cuts-coronavirus-mortality-40

https://www.newsmax.com/us/ivermectin-drug-virus/2020/05/22/id/968688/

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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 2 points | Jun 23 2020 16:54:42

I tweeted with Dr. Peter Hibberd. He said that he knows the Broward County MDs whose study was reported a week or so back, talked to them frequently. He tweets everyday trying to get traction for that study.

I agree that in the NewsMax article, he comes across as very knowledgeable about ivermectin. Probably lurks in this sub (joke).

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[-] jr2thdoc | 2 points | Jul 04 2020 17:50:25

Some dentist are extremely knowledgeable in the treatment protocols. I was calling for steroid treatment of ARDS back when WHO was against it. Now 4 months later... dexamethasone is saving lives. Dentist are not hindered by "protocols". We have a specialty in a field that deals with inflammation, which this virus definitely produces and dexamethasone is one of our go to drugs to reduce acute inflammation.

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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points | Jun 23 2020 16:51:31

It's a double-blind study? No, everyone knew they were giving and getting ivermectin. There wasn't a control group, just 1 floor that got a higher dose of ivermectin than the other floors. It wasn't a study: no data collected, etc. It's a great anecdote.

Key points:

On second thought, I guess the staff is the control group, because they didn't receive the drug. Apparently a lot of them go sick. No numbers though.

This could be a decent observational study, if the nursing home would publish data or let someone in to collect data.

The youtube video (loosely transcribed):

My mother was a resident at XYZ nursing home. They had a scabies outbreak in February. When the topical cream failed, they gave a single dose of ivermectin to everyone. That was in late February. 170 residents received the dose. The 4th floor, which was the one experiencing the scabies outbreak, got the highest dose. The other floors got the preventative dose (implying less for the other floors -- she doesn't specify any doses). They said it lasts 23-30 days in their system.

TLA: Ivermectin has a half-life of 18 hours, so 23-30 days? No.

TLA edit: Someone pointed out to me that the half-life only refers to ivermectin in the blood plasma. I have since learned that ivermectin is stored in fat -- which explains why people treated for scabies can have 90% less scabies than when they were treated two years before. So 23-30 days is possible. But how would they know? Did they somehow test for the presence of ivermectin? That wasn't reported.

They had a covid19 outbreak at the nursing home. More staff were infected than residents. None of the staff received ivermectin. The 4th floor staff had the highest infection rate -- and none of the residents on that floor got the virus.

TLA: Where did the staff catch the virus, if not from their patients? I suppose the staff from different floors commingled in the staff lounge, or something? It IS impressive that none of the 4th floor residents got sick, given that their staff had the virus.

Median age must be 85. They all have tons of chronic conditions. Many are not mobile. They need help with eating and dressing, so there is tons of contact between staff and patients.

On the other floors (besides the 4th floor) there were only 6 infected by the virus, 4 of whom were asymptomatic including a woman who was almost 100 years old.

Nicole's mother died 12 days after being found covid-positive and during that time Nicole didn't see any covid symptoms -- even though covid was designated the official cause of death.

My mother seemed asympotmatic; she had a low-grade fever briefly. She was very thirsty, every time one of us visited. Her private care taker (for 5 years) said she had never seen her so thirsty. Nicole says dehydration, apathy, lethargy, loss of appetite -- are the only symptoms she saw.

TLA: I guess the implication is that Mom had something else going on that killed her, it wasn't covid19. ARE those things (dehydration, etc) covid19 symptoms?

The care-givers at the home were terrified. Every one was in full PPE. Even so, they refused to deal with covid19 patients.

They called me on a Tuesday to say Mom had a fever. Later they called to say the fever broke. Then on Thursday they said that I should come in because she was dying (she was 92). Mom was mobile with a walker. Apparently they hid her walker to keep her in the room.

What happened with the media? One of the nurses said they thought ivermectin had saved the nursing home population. Nicole looked up ivermectin and found the Monash 48 hours study. After my Mom passed away, a friend told her about a NewsMax article that quoted Dr. Hibberd. I told him about the impact of ivermectin at the nursing home. He agreed it was a double-blind study. CTV contacted the nursing home. That was when it was revealed that the 4th floor received a higher dose. The nursing home refused to cooperate with the news people.

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