TrumpLyftAlles | 6 points | May 30 2020 01:38:31

Combined Military Hospital Pakistan Launches Ivermectin Clinical Trial Investigating Efficacy (2020-05-29)

https://www.trialsitenews.com/combined-military-hospital-pakistan-launches-ivermectin-clinical-trial-investigating-efficacy-in-covid-19-patients/?unapproved=42933&moderation-hash=50df2367c8720a106af42ecba5deef89#comment-42933

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[-] strongerthrulife | 2 points | May 30 2020 12:01:41

I’m getting so goddamn tired at how long all of this is taking

Why is a drug that’s almost free taking so long to get trials going

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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points | May 31 2020 04:37:43

That's the nature of research, I'm afraid. I studied statistics and experimental design in college. Given that the course of covid19 is about 20 days, it should be possible to put the data together quickly -- if you have enough people with mild+ symptoms. I have zero actual experience in a clinical setting, though, so pay no attention to my opinions.

I write about the 7 studies expected this summer here.

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[-] strongerthrulife | 2 points | May 31 2020 10:49:30

I appreciate this is how we’ve always done it

What I’m getting at is during emergencies we must be able to develop a better way

Ivermectin has an established safety profile. I fail to understand why given the lab data, they don’t use that safety profile and choose one hospital in a high infection zone, choose a dose and give it to half the patients they see, provided the patients meet the safety profile

There HAS to be a faster way than what we’re doing now

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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points | May 31 2020 12:44:18

I share your frustration.

If the hospital has 10 covid19 patients in the ICU, sort them into matched pairs, randomly assign one from each pair to the experimental group, give ivermectin (or another treatment of interest) to the experimental patients, then collect data to see if the treatment works.

If you believe the probably-too-good-to-be true reports of the MDs in Florida, Dominican Republic, Bangladesh, and elsewhere, then they should see results within a few days.

Or is ivermectin more useful with mild disease instead of ICU patients? Identify a pool of patients who are just sick enough to merit hospitalization, sort them into matched pairs, etc...

But I'm naive. In the US, at least, doctors operate under constraints. Studies have to go through a process of approval. Are the inclusion and exclusion criteria defined and sufficient? Are ethical standards met? What is the process of procuring and organizing tests meds and placebos for proper blinding? And a bunch of other stuff I don't know about.

So we get trials that apparently genuinely expect to complete their study a full year after it starts. <<Mind boggles That works under ordinary conditions. We are in the midst of a pandemic, though, where we desperately need therapies.

Frustrating.

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[-] nojox | 2 points | Jun 11 2020 21:29:54

I think parent poster is looking for an amendment / exception to the medical protocols for emergencies like this one. I doubt the science would allow it, but it would definitely be allowed if rich people and politicians started falling sick in larger numbers :)

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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 2 points | Jun 11 2020 22:02:18

I think parent poster is looking for an amendment / exception to the medical protocols for emergencies like this one.

I'm not paying close attention, but the FDA is certainly doing a lot of fast tracking. I'm mostly aware of the FDA doing that with tests -- but I'm barely aware so don't quote me.

With any drug (or other effective prophylactic or therapeutic), when the US government blesses it, there will be a huge problem with supply and distribution. There's a lot of room for ugliness, if/when effective drugs are identified.

Merck (plus other manufacturers, maybe, the source is ambiguous) produced a billion ivermectin tablets in 2019 for Mass Drug Administrations against parasites; those tablets went to 540 million people. Some share of the 2020 billion tablets could be diverted to US-only by application of the Defense Production Act. Seems potentially cruel to those who need the ivermectin to ward off river blindness and filariasis, if the manufacturers cannot ramp up production adequately.

One thing ivermectin has going for its long history, a super-strong safety profile, and its dirt-low price. It's also manufactured in several countries. IIRC, there are 7 companies making it. I'm aware of Merck, possibly manufacturing in New Jersey, and also manufacture in India and the Dominican Republic.

it would definitely be allowed if rich people and politicians started falling sick in larger numbers

I don't think this disease is sparing the rich and powerful. I suppose they are able to afford (or have insurance that pays for) Remdesivir, but that's only marginally effective. <time break Hmmm: there may be income differences other than those explained by the correlation with race. I'm not going to take the time to form an opinion just now.

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[-] TrumpLyftAlles | 1 points | May 30 2020 01:38:54

IVERTODO Write this up!

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